Meth decontamination?

[djmcmath]

My sister and her husband made the mistake of purchasing a house that had previously been used as a meth lab (yes, as in methamphetamines, a very common homegrown drug in the Pacific Northwest). Apparently, if you paint over it (like the previous owners apparently did), it covers the smell (and effects) for a while, but eventually, the meth residue/fumes/whatever(?) seeps back through and contaminates everything.

They went through a long testing process, assuming it was something else terrible (Black Mold), and performing the necessary steps to decontaminate everything possible. The decontaminated stuff (which has no black mold, but apparently still contained some leftover meth) was stored at my parent's house while my sister and her husband were trying to get their own house in order.

Now they're realizing that the stuff is completely indestructable (ammonia, alcohol, nothing touches it), can put normal people into a coma, cause cancer, etc. The worst case is that they'll end up losing the house entirely -- bulldoze it over with all their earthly possessions inside, and start over from scratch. Given that they have two small children, and he's only a music teacher, that's pretty rough. Insurance has already said they won't cover meth contamination (or black mold; I wonder what they _will_ cover?).

Does the Pelican braintrust have any brilliant ideas? Anyone have experience with decontaminating a meth lab?

Thanks in advance.

Dan

[rammstein]

What are the affected building materials? Could they get away with just replacing all of the drywall and flooring?

[Jim Bremner]

. nothing usefull, withdrawn

[Neilk]

How about getting the neighbors chip in and help them rip out all the sheetrock etc down to the studs and renovate the inside. They should all be happy to no longer have a meth lab in the neighborhood.

[red-beard]

If the compounds are volatile, why not try something like tent heating, as is used to kill terminates. If you bake the house for while, ventilate, bake, repeat a few times, the chemicals that are coming out should be gone/down to acceptable levels.

[Dantilla]

Previous owners failed to disclose a known defect. That's a no-no. They could be in deep doo-doo.

Stripping the sheetrock, spraying the framing with Kilz, or a similar shellac-based product, and hanging new drywall may be what's necessary. The old sheetrock is now contaminated waste, and should be treated as such in order to keep out of trouble. It would be tempting to play dumb and just haul it to the dump, but if caught, the penalties would be big.

Here in the Northwest, there are companies that remove meth-infested waste. If you hire someone to take care of it, you will most likely not be held liable if things are not handled properly.

Best case? Hire a pro, and have an attorney hand the bill to the previous owners.

[djmcmath]

Good thoughts, all. I particularly like the idea of hiring a pro. Any recommendations? Do they go under the name "Meth Decontaminators?"

I particularly like the thought of using heat to boil off the nastiness. There were a number of irreplaceable items that are going to hurt to dispose of -- musical instruments that have been in the family for a while, camera gear that they simply cannot afford to replace, that sort of thing. If they could heat treat the stuff, it might be usable.

In the meantime, I'll see if I can track down some of those pros and see what they recommend.

Thanks.

[widgeon13]

That is definitely a no-no and now that you know it must be disclosed but the courts should pass the cost associated with repair and decontamination along to the original owners. They are responsible, house never should have been sold in that condition.

I would get in contact w/ local FBI/State Police as well as state HAZMAT office. Contamination is more than likely not just in the house but the ground around the foundation and could be in the water supply depending what kind of well and how materials were disposed of. You can be certain, whoever ran the lab didn't dispose of according to proper procedures for waste disposal.

Don't mean to be an alarmist but this ***** is bad stuff. As an EMT when ever we think meth is involved we call HAZMAT (as policy) to get green flag for safe situation before entering structure.

Good luck!

[djmcmath]

Ok, remarkably enough, the Right Answer to this question should have been "Have you googled?" It never occurred to me that this problem would be so common that Big Business would have been built around it.

Some research:
http://www.buildernewsmag.com/viewnews.pl?id=312

It seems that meth decontamination can run anywhere from a few thousand dollars to more money than my car is worth, and nobody's willing to help hapless homeowners with the costs. The nasty chemicals in question aren't usually the methamphetamines themselves, either -- those are virtually harmless in the kinds of residual doses that are present in most poorly cleaned labs.

It's HI, Hydriotic Acid, and Red Phosphorous, that cause problems. These substances permeate all porous materials. Even if painted over with a sealant-type paint (like Killz), latent humidity causes their eventual release by leeching through whatever paint was used. Heat compounds the release, along with humidity.

The next item of note is that it's extremely hazardous stuff. 2ppm of HI is considered deadly. Smaller doses of HI or RP cause all kinds of unpleasant side effects. Apparently, it's not uncommon to find meth guys dead and rotting next to their gear (and a voice from heaven proclaims loudly, "Justice is Served!"). Therefore, the sites all recommend against doing it yourself. That may be because the sites I found were virtually all operated by professionals who have paid a lot of money for the necessary decontamination certifications, but it may be because it really is that dangerous.

Thanks again for the pointers, guys.

[stomachmonkey]

I'd have two priorities. Getting a professional in there to evaluate and a lawyer to litigate.

I'd sue everyone. Previous owner, home inspector, insurance companies, anyone i could think of that was involved with the sale.

Curious, how was it discovered that it used to be a Meth Lab? Was it public knowledge? Was there ever a bust there? If so I'd sue the local government, police, DOH, anyone that knew about it with the power to force a clean up or condemn it.

[Hugh R]

Read this PDF on cleanup. Looks pretty straight forward. Ammonia, acetone, alcohol, are pretty easy to volatilize by opening up ceiling and wall drywall and getting to the wood or concrete flooring. Acids can be neutralized with baking soda, or calcium carbonate in water. The drywall and stuff are probably not a hazardous waste in your state, especially if you've neutralized or let them air out.

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/meth/lab/labcleanup.html#guidance

Personal protection if its a DIY is important. Gloves, organic vapor respirators, Tyvex bunny suits. I'm a Certified Industrial Hygienist and I used to clean up lots of Superfund sites. Let me know if you need more info.

What others said, talk to a lawyer.

[deanp]

Oregon Gov Link

KCI Meth Clean Up

Washington

Tacoma, Washington

You indicated above the Northwest. Looks like Washington and Oregon are two locations that have put together procedures which are lacking on other states relative to clean-up.

[Chocaholic]

Originally posted by stomachmonkey
I'd have two priorities. Getting a professional in there to evaluate and a lawyer to litigate.

I'd sue everyone. Previous owner, home inspector, insurance companies, anyone i could think of that was involved with the sale.

Curious, how was it discovered that it used to be a Meth Lab? Was it public knowledge? Was there ever a bust there? If so I'd sue the local government, police, DOH, anyone that knew about it with the power to force a clean up or condemn it.

+1. Don't overlook this advice.

[turbo6bar]

Guidelines for cleaning up former meth houses


I also think the airing out and general cleaning is a great idea. I would also investigate the use of commercial ozone generators to kill/remove/destroy organic compounds in the home.

[Laneco]

If your house is unliveable, dangerous and cannot be sold for any value due to an issue not disclosed during the sale, an issue that you did NOT contribute to in any way... Can you have your home-owners correct the problem?

I mean, if a huge tree was rotten when you bought the property and then fell on the house the home owners insurance would pay for it even if the previous owner was knowledgeable and neglected to tell you about the emininent hazard.

I'd definately give this a try. The answer is probably "NO", but if the answer is "maybe" or "yes" - then let the home-owners insurance sue everyone and fix your house.

Meantime, get a hotel or stay at a friends!
angela

[Dantilla]

Originally posted by stomachmonkey
I'd sue everyone.

Does this include me, since I offered some advice?

[Hugh R]

Originally posted by turbo6bar
Guidelines for cleaning up former meth houses


I also think the airing out and general cleaning is a great idea. I would also investigate the use of commercial ozone generators to kill/remove/destroy organic compounds in the home.

In general ozone generators only add to the O3 levels in homes and cause respiratory problems, the concentration of O3 is high enough to cause a smog alert in your house, but not high enough to clean the air of mold, or anything else. Not enough electron volts to ionize anything, but enough to cause respiratory problems.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally posted by Dantilla
Does this include me, since I offered some advice?

Suing you twice

[Laneco]

My wife wrote in earlier but I think you can go after the Title company if they bought through one they are liable for checking the house liens and other problems like maybe the house being use as a meth lab? As long as they were not knowledgeable of this there might be a a way out may be?

Steve

[Matt Meyer]

Embarrassing one of those links is from the county I live in.

If this is in Washington State you are required by Code to hire an approved contractor or get approval from the local health department. The department of health should have not let people in unless it has been properly decontaminated.

Washington State Administrative code

There are also requirements for posting, and disclosing the contamination at the above link.

Contact the health department and a lawyer.