If Christmas gets any closer to Halloween I'm just going to keep my costume on. :rolleyes: Hey! I could go as a Druid...kill two birds and all that.;)

Michael? :D :D :D - you as a Druid....

mate I'll have to check my diary for next year - see if I can squeeze in a "little affair" in between all the other stuff , OK? :D ;)

Let's see...would jesus:

1. hate muslims?
2. be contemptuous of nonbelievers?
3. say that women from his part of the country are all "fat azzes"?
4. wipe away his immorality with a sweeping, "I sin" but "I'm a christian so that's ok"?
5. draw naked pictures of his gf and post them at the trivia asking, "is she a 10?"

Good thing most Christians do not behave like tony or else they'd start losing attendance at church.

WOOOHOOO!:D

Attendance is down actually. Hmmmm......

I see by your "hmmm.." you understood my point.

Yeah so I thought too. I can say however that over the last few years I have known more and more families who attend their respected churches regularly. Probably has everything to do with our selected places to live though. Anyway, I personally find it heartening to see people enjoying their faith.

Overall though attendance is down from what I read and know...I'm not a regular churchgoer either but I don't feel the absolute need to attend Mass to reinforce my belief as I carry it with me always. But that's just me ;) .

lisa..and that is the way it should be. I mentioned the "Internal Forum" which states that the invidual can have a personal relationship with a Creator outside of the rules and regulations of any specific religion.

Bob,

I agree - and I had great influences in my life that shared this very same view.

My mother was Greek Orthodox; my father was Melkite Catholic (so am I). This match in itself was considered by some to be unusual to say the least.

In fact Dad spent two years "in training" as a monk in an order in Lebanon before emigrating here. He was deeply religious but he did not wear his religion on his sleeve. He would pray wherever he was. My tolerance comes from both of them and my maternal grandparents as well.

My grandfather brought his family from Lebanon in 1926. In their home village they had Jewish and Muslim neighbours and everyone got along very well. In fact one of my grandfather's closest friends was the Mufti out here - I remember as a kid being in awe of these two old men and their genteel ways. I loved them both - a lot. By contrast, I witnessed my grandfather throw his "one of his own" out one day - a corrupt Greek Orthodox priest no less (hey everyone religion has 'em).

Lame as it sounds, I was taught to be "true to your heart and to yourself". This is how I want and try to live my life. This is the most important teaching I want to instill in our kids too. For me at least this means I am true to my belief in God as well. It certainly does not mean that I should go to Church on Sunday and then sin on Monday...saw that enough in my school years; all those *****y Roman Catholic mothers (as Mum used to call them). That's not for me.

Just like my midwestern mom. Hasn't been to church in twenty-some years. Try to shake her faith? You'll come away with emotional bruises.:D Man, I love that woman. Friggin Pioneer stock. Taught me to see life with an open mind. She didn't raise me telling me what was the "only correct way" to think, believe or not believe!

I was raised about as Midwest, "white bread", no Asian, Latino, or African descent Americans to be seen through the fields of corn and beans as you can get. Central Christian Church, no shyt, on a very non-regular basis until I got sick of the pious youth group "where were you last Sunday?" games.

However...I now follow more of my Cherokee/Celtic/Nordic (earth/druid/pillage) roots which pretty much makes me a confirmed Pagan. The Earth is where my body came from and where it will return. My energy? I'll tell ya when I get there. Why should I fear what I see in nature every single day. My only regret would be no longer seeing the interesting progression of mankind not to mention my progeny.

My poor parents and sisters worry about my soul on a daily basis. They are worried they won't see me in their Heaven. This I understand because of their love for me. However, like a lot of US midwestern Christians, they have no real concept of the rest of the world. Try explaining the original origins and history of their own religion and holidays to them and their heads explode. Love em to death though. I just leave em in Illinois.

There is no reality,
only perception.

Dr Phil

Lemmings, I've never felt compelled to follow the popular groupthink religions. I'm also very uncomfortable with hypocrisy. That said, this world is so amazing and diverse, it is not beyond comprehension that there should be some divine guidance. I don't think I could be comfortable with ANY religion as I feel very comfortable beliveing what I feel to be the guidance of my own common sense, compassion and respect of people in general and of ALL faiths and beliefs. If that makes me athiest, so be it.

Its difficuly to "hate" someone whos been dead 2000 years, if indeed he existed at all.

But I do hate Snow White, the scrag.

Another atheist here.

What gets me is the hate, intolerance, greed, hypocricy, and unethical behavior I see in the vast majority of Christians I know (and being in Texas, that's most people I know so maybe it's just the law of averages and human nature).

This has obliviously been taken the wrong way. I have no animosity towards the large secular population of this country. My faith commands to respect ALL life. It does not however command me to respect their views.

You need to read your Bible more.

No one seems to comprehend what I have posted before:

God created faith; man created religion.

Define God as you will; Gaia, Yaweh, something else......But the very nub of the argument is that religions, made by man, are based on man's "understanding", which is imperfect and can only reflect that imperfection. Faith, on the other hand is internal and personal and can be founded on anything that gives the person a "core". It is a difficult concept, I know. But, until someone can separate the concept of religion from the concept of faith, they will not be able to resolve their difficulty with the history of "religion" and its flaws.

why faith
why a hiding god
what is this all powerfull god so afraid of
if there is a god plan for man
why not tell the people HIMSELF
or at least send an angel

instead of a god who hides and sends men to claim to speak his words
I smell a scam

No offense meant, but that sounds like convenient rationalization to me (not to mention parsing over words, semantics and just frankly a lot of theological double-speak babble-talk).

Man created "God", religion, AND the "faith" necessary to believe in either of them. And man did it due to motivations that are HARDLY unselfish or non-secular.

Well, the origins of organized religion, which I guess is redundant, are pretty interesting to me. What practical reasons required that people organize around a person in the early days and very early days? Power, obedience to the potentate, enforcement of moral code, information, whatever.

But church attendance is down and my earlier comment was mostly in jest--indeed, I'd say church attendance for the ultra conservatives in the mega churches has increased.

Traditional, old time religion has probably seen a drop in attendance because there's not as much a practical need to go to church--you get your information via the phone, internet, and mail because you can read and obviously have access to these things. Thoughtful people read that man may have evolved rather than just popping up out of nowhere and existing side-by-side with the dinosaurs. You get your socializing done because of the urbanization of the developed world--you no longer live miles from another farm. I would think that back in the day, going to church was the only way to socialize and spread news in rural communities.

I respect the hell out of b.a. christians because most seem so happy where before, they may have drifted a bit. But the intolerance is really pitiful, unkind,--very unchristian, imo. Think of the fundamental muslims--a lot are uneducated, young, and easily influenced. The recent educated health workers caught in the UK was shocking to me--I've been in 3d world muslim countries and have seen how easily influenced they are by radio and pamphets--these are mostly uneducated and very poor people clinging to any shred of hope offered by the cleric. Why do they believe that the US is the great Satan? They're not hearing anything from anyone else.

Will the evangelical christian movement persist? Who knows--reading tony's defensive and offensive replies shows me that momentum may be changing, which would be too bad for the folks who really need the support and black-and-white guidance offered.

Jack