You mean Snowman isn't Tony's father?:D

http://www.terminally-incoherent.com...der_father.jpg

I'd comment on this topic, but I think I would get stoned for it, and being atheist I couldn't even consider it martyrdom...

Which century is this, anyway?

:) :) :) Lisa, I know we are both married and love our spouses dearly but, is there any way we could secretely date?:D I'll be in WA working in the 6/08 time frame. ;) No, don't answer yet.

Cheers,

Wow...
What a thread. I know a few other people from Greenwood In, and they all seem to have the same outlook in life, being their thoughts on god are right, no matter how outrageous! (I am not saying everyone from there is this way, I'm sure there are some normal people there somewhere.... hiding)

There is nothing wrong with having faith, just keep it to yourself!

And Tony, yes, I find the christians that knock on my door telling me I need to go to their church to be saved just as offensive as the muslim extremists. Personally I wish some of them (extreme christians) would start blowing themselves up as well.

Tony, You have shown the board that you are either un-informed, un-educated, or simply a blind follower, but then again that is what extremists do best: listen, follow directions, don't question, and don't think for themselves. You say that this thread has become an attack towards you, I see it as a group of people trying to help you not be as much of an arrogant a$$

-Nick

Probably irrelevant, but sometimes I get the feeling that there is no reality; something akin to living someone else's dream. This feeling is neither comforting nor disturbing, it just is. It does make me wonder sometimes, like being disassociated from the world we see around us.

Anyone ever have this kind of feeling?

/agnostic

I'm pretty sure that Tony wouldn't consider Jesus to be a liberal either... very myopic imo :)

No, no, no! We should all think exactly the same way, vote the same way and kill to death anyone who is maybe a gay, or a liberal or who doesn't go to the exact same church that I do cause after all that's what being free and having free will is all about right?! ;)

BTW I'm not quite an atheist I'm in the sceptical but open minded camp.

Yes, all the time. Probably why I engage in adrenaline producing activities to really feel alive. Nothing better than riding a motorcycle on a lonely road at sunrise to make you realize you are engaged with reality.

Atheist (nontheist according to Beliefnet, see other thread) I am not a Christ-Satan hater or anti-religion.
God is niether empirically provable nor logically possible, hence there is no god.

got that a lot the period right after eating grade A acid and tripping a bit to much...wore off after time...
some form of post traumatic stress

is that feeling recent?
don't want to impose an amateur diagnose on you, just an idea

I'm a Christian and I don't keep my beliefs to myself, but I also respect others and their beliefs. Many of my friends are atheist/agnostic and I have many buddies of different religions and we are all able to discuss our beliefs, the similarities and differences without anyone getting offended or offensive. Being a Christian doesn't necessarily make you a jerk... although I've certainly experienced my fair share.

Jesus associated with people from all walks of life and looked for the good in people and loved them as they are, I try in my own humble way to do the same...

I'm going to do my best to stay away from this thread too, but I have a question or two. Perhaps an observation. I wonder how we are defining "atheist." To me, "atheist" and "agnostic" are not synonyms. Having doubt makes decent sense to me. Adopting and defending a negative position does not. That is, in science the existence of some thing or principle is, at least, potentially defensible. The non-existence of some thing or principle is MUCH more of a longshot.

Again, I can understand doubt. That's easy. But how many people here are sufficiently foolish and arrogant as to pretend to be convinced there is no God?

Probably no one. Most - if not all - atheists simply feel that the probability is low enough to simply say I don't think gods exist. You can't prove a negative and there's no sense in trying. I can't prove that there isn't some form of life living on the dark side of the moon, but I would say the probability is low enough that I would doubt it's existence.

Just because there is no evidence for the existence of a god or gods, but yet one can't *prove* that they don't exist, that doesn't make the odds of existing 50/50 in the mind of an atheist. It has nothing to do with foolishness or arrogance - just logic.

some would say it's equally foolish, and egotistical to be so absolutely convinced that this planet and humans in general, are so special that a God has to exist, with an afterlife just for them. to the point that they have impose their convictions to others who disagree...and be generally intolerant to those "others", with big rants about how this or that is in their Bible, and that makes it a fact for anybody , not just to them...

I am not 100% convinced there is no god or god council or team god, nor is even the staunchest of atheists like Dawkins or Harris. We could, of course, argue the semantics of "atheist".

Any reasonably intelligent person should understand the serious problem in both logic and science that arrives when one attempts to prove the lack of existence of something.

Agnostics and atheists and perhaps others would probably take the inverse position of yours made above and wonder about the "foolishness and arrogance" of those absolutely convinced there is a god - and doing so without any known, verifiable or testable evidence.

Are you 100% sure there is a god? If so, the burden is upon you to prove your position; it's not my burden to prove the non-existence of your god.

Best,

Kurt

I often wonder why so many people are “sufficiently foolish and arrogant as to pretend to be convinced there is a god” when all they have is a belief, conviction, feeling, intuition, whatever word you want to call it.

(Why did you use the word “pretend?” Do you think that atheists secretly believe in a god, yet pretend to be convinced there is not? Let me assure you that this is not the case.)

You say: “Having doubt makes decent sense to me. Adopting and defending a negative position does not.” Isn’t the opposite just as valid? Like this: “Having doubt makes decent sense to me. Adopting and defending a positive position does not.”

There are probably very few atheists who state with absolute certainty that god does not exist. Most take the position that Mike states: “Most - if not all - atheists simply feel that the probability is low enough to simply say I don't think gods exist.” On the other hand, far more believers take the approach that they are 100% certain that god does exist. To me, adopting and defending this positive position does not make sense. It is, as we have seen on the other thread, indefensible. All believers can say is “I believe a god exists, therefore I am 100% certain that I am correct.”

neither 'side' may prove their 'case'...cannot prove existence of or non-existence of. that's the principle behind a faith-based acceptance of god(s). so, for the most part, these arguments are simply an exercise in futility, except in those cases where one is swayed to another's viewpoint. that seems to be the only reason to argue this subject. i like lisa's statement about acceptance without judgment, reserving the right to host others of a different persuasion until they begin to insist with their attempts to impose their views upon us. at some point, we have to agree to disagree and leave it at the the door.

As long as we have bunnies and snoopy ornaments, I'll know deep in my soul that these are holidays celebrated out of deep religious significance in this country.

It has nothing to do with the sale of retail goods what-so-ever. Really.