what would your LEGAL REMEDY BE????

charleskieffner · 07-10-2007, 09:37 AM

in a nut shell....... bought 5 acres from realtor who was(past tense) a personnal friend. with swipe of pen(literally) the other 1.36 acres of beautiful sonoran dezert was sold to 3 other people. realtor had set this up with friend who was subbing 10 acres. she was in bed, maybe could have been in bed or worked for him, the seller. seller unbeknownst to us has long record of questionable behavior. to the point of new realtor calling him a crook and a criminal along w/attorney i hired also stating same.

on disclosure sheets from seller(henceforth known as the "prison sheet in ariz.") seller stated the following:

1) c.w. kieffner "may" have 1/8th well share w/no liabilities given about quanity or quality of water.

reality......we have a well head uncapped, undocumented by maricopa county/state of arizona. or dept environ. quality. well head is not even on 10 acre parcel.

well was dug approx week or so before docs signed. so in other words we dont have jack squat!

2) easements ingress/egress as approved by county on original plot plan are not there. in other words access road we come in on is not correct and can be blocked at any time. approved easement ingress/egress goes thru other peoples lil bit of paradise and they havent a clue about this. in other words they will go APESH!! when they find out. road has not been bladed thru and when it does .........more lawyer fun will ensue(pun) i'm sure. disclosure stated correct easements, but they were never completed. the ******* road aint where its supposed to be!

saving the best fer last............

3) on disclosure it states and god i love quoting this " c.w. kieffner "IS NOT IN A FLOOD PLAIN"!

well guess damn WHAT? I AM IN A FEMA MAPPED PLOTTED SURVEYED CROSS HATCHED SATELLITE PICTURED AIRPLANE PICTURED ******* DOCUMENTED FLOOD PLAIN!

sooooooooooo?????? my remedy for this abortion/debacle:

they(realtor/her broker/century 21 corp/seller)buy MY land back at going rate $250K.

pay all legal costs. R.E. lawyer @ $280 an hour. 30 year vet at R.E.

pay re-survey costs.

add on any pain suffering/explosive diarrea costs.

remove my name from all documents involved. AND I GO AWAY!

or............ i enlist other 3 people who purchased land w/me and we get class action suit and SUE THEM INTO STONE AGE!

their R.E. LIC'S will be lost.

and quite possibly PRISON for fraud misrepresentation!

is this good or WHAT?

is my initial remedy fair? should i ask for more? will judge see the same way.

their remedy, we think will be, (unacceptable ) is only to provide correct easement(road) and a working /potable drinking well.

they CANNOT CHANGE fact i'm in a FLOOD PLAIN! all docs state " i am NOT IN A FLOOD PLAIN"!!!!!!

am i asking too much?

need advice quick!

Jim Richards · 07-10-2007, 09:48 AM

I'm definately leaning towards the nuk-u-lar option.

What a pisser that people can/do still pull this crap.

the · 07-10-2007, 09:49 AM

legion · 07-10-2007, 09:51 AM

People who pull this kind of crap don't usually respond to threats: they like to make them.

I suspect you will have to go "nuclear" with option #2.

charleskieffner · 07-10-2007, 10:05 AM

"the" your real estate wiz-dumb is questionable. by the way for "the's" edification......i have a cum laude degree.

the above was all represented by my realtor as KOSHER!

i would think that buying the land at 171k and now(yes now! today) present tense, it is worth 250 k and my expenses is a pretty fair deal for them to avoid the "NUK-LAR" full NBC treatment.

i know if i was faced w/loss of R.E. LIC and possible jail term, i would go for option "A" in a heartbeat!

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Nuke 'em.

I ******* hate realtors. They're slightly above insurance adjusters but slightly below used car salespeople.

Gogar · 07-10-2007, 10:12 AM

Step 1. Obtain address of Realtor and former personal friend.

Step 2. Load drum set into car.

Step 3. Wait until about 4 am, and quietly set up drum set on front porch of realtor . . . ..

Step 4. remove huge drum sticks from pocket . . . . . . . . .

The "Nuk-u-lar" option sounds like it will take a long time and may or may not get you your money back. Try option A and break even and start over. If that doesn't, work, SEE ABOVE.

tabs · 07-10-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charleskieffner
i have a cum laude degree.

I wouldn't go around admitting that right now if I were U....and welcome to the wild wild west...any Utah Banks involved?

And ahhh one question just how well connected is that RE Agent or Seller in AZ.

Jims5543 · 07-10-2007, 10:20 AM

Sorry if I missed something I reread it twice.

Did you get title work and an survey done prior to the purchase?

Did you let your former friend realtor represent you in the closing?

You state a survey was done, I am assuming it was done aftert the closing, if before, did anyone look at it prior to the closing, it should have reflected no access road, and no well on any of the 10 acres.

I have no idea how much money is at stake here, but your solution seems to be a valid one, a well should be drilled per contract, and proper access to the property should be arranged.

As far as the flood zone goes, that is not a huge deal, insurance against flooding in the desert should not be too difficult to get.

If you want to PM me the address of the property or Legal description along with the county and state I will go to FEMA's database and pull your flood map. I have never seen a aerial photo style flood map in my 20 years of surveying, unless FEMA does it different in the midwest (I doubt it) it does not sound like you were looking at an official FEMA flood map.

Noney · 10:23 AM

Stories like this make my blood absolutely boil!!

While the knee-jerk response might be to sue the living daylights out of them, I suggest you take a step back and evaluate the situation. What does your lawyer say about all this? How do you REALLY feel about the land? Is it nice enough to fight for? Realize that you now have the upper hand in the deal and perhaps you can make that work to your advantage -- i.e. Get something for nothing out of the deal (perhaps more land at the current site or a better deal on some other property). Whatever you do, don't get emotional about it. Talk to your attorney and figure out the best path.

Good luck, man. We're all fighting for you!

id10t · 07-10-2007, 10:22 AM

Got their mailing address? Search slashdot.org for "alan ralsky dos usps"

charleskieffner · 07-10-2007, 10:24 AM

well if we go "full NBC" nuk-lar/chem/bio on them what do i stand to win for fraud/misrepresentation???

the way its been explained to me by R.E. legal beagle lawyer who knows seller and has literally thrown him physically out of his office a few years ago. (lawyer a very big boy im 6'3 200 and hes 6'5 275#) that it is no longer " caveat emptor" buyer beware.

it is NOW SELLER BEWARE and az. dept. of R.E. is no longer playing paddy cake w/offenders. stiff sentences/long jail terms/loss of R.E. lic at the least.

so in other words if you(seller) state "there has never been a murder in the house" and bob crane(hogans heros) was murdered there, you are screwed!

if you state on disclosure sheet(prison sheet) that the "property is not a toxic waste site" or "not near an airport" or " anything else detrimental to site" and IN FACT IT IS...........seller IS SCREWED!

az. has bad rap for land fraud and dept of R.E. has taken stiff actions to correct this piss poor behavior.

i guess what i am asking is can i sue them for a million/billion/trillion/gazillion dollars?????

and then ride off into the sunset on my horsey named "race porsche" and my burro named "trophy truck race team". catch my drift?

the accused are as follows:

ex friend beeatcch realtor.

her broker who has insurance just for this.

century 21 corp.

the seller(deep pockets and a R.E. lic that could be lost and jail time)

tabs · 07-10-2007, 10:34 AM

Do they have your money? If they do your screwed...so don't give me this how tough the AZ laws are, they have to be enforced. That takes time...and money for your new legal Bills.

Dantilla · 07-10-2007, 10:37 AM

A good real estate attorney who has looked over your documentation can give you far more accurate answers than us arm-chair internets lawyers.

charleskieffner · 10:45 AM

jim,site was surveyed before docs signed. i had re survey done 7 weeks ago due to stakes/caps molested. signed docs 4/11/05

FEMA has flood plain map from sat and plane dated 2007 for here in southwest. i am not in flood way which means im in the middle of the mississippi/colorado river.

i am in flood plain. which disclosure states "i am not in flood plain"

this land was an investment only. 2 homes east of my parcel are on MLS at 900k!

2 homes south of my parcel 1.5 million!

i have an 1 1/2 acre 2 story 2500sq ft home w/pool, 3 out buildings. they will drag me outta here by my boots. no reason to sell . bought it for 115K in 1986 and take a wild guess what its worth now! couldnt afford to build/buy another home in this zip. its gone thru the roof to mars. rule of thumb here. buy land sit on it 20 years plus and you will make big bucks.

if i was realtor/her broker/century 21/or the seller, i really feel in my heart that buying me out at 250k and payment for legal expenses explosive diarrea is a real fair deal.

i know all about litigation big time. dont want to go there. if possible.

but if i have to...........will i win (1) racing porsche and (1) chevy trophy truck?????? please!

charleskieffner · 07-10-2007, 10:44 AM

tabs yes they have money......and that is good.

they cannot change anything. it is all documented. when docs signed by me about "not being in flood plain" well share/easements..........the docs that flowed to other 3 buyers are exactly the same!!!!

so in other words they fuched up (4) FOUR TIMES! (4) sets of docs all the same.

title companies here only check for past present liens on property. not one damn thing more. many people think they check well shares easements etc..........they DONT!

schamp · 07-10-2007, 11:35 AM

I would go with the lawyer route. Call you used to be friend and let him know you want his ass and others involved. I would also get the attorney general for your state involved. May take awhile but they messed with wrong guy. Now have some fun at their expense. Got a feeling the Century 21 Corp guys will want this to go away. Don't forget the local tv and newspapers. my .02

onewhippedpuppy · 07-10-2007, 12:07 PM

I'm no lawyer, but if I recall my business law class correctly, I don't think you can sue for punitive damages in a case like this. They have to be actual incurred costs/damages due to the fraud. Like if you had to pay for a hotel due to your home not being livable, etc. You might stand a chance to get your money back, as well as other costs due to this mess, but I don't think ownership of The Racer's Group is in your future.

As someone else said, talk to a lawyer. Probably a better source than some guys on a Porsche/BMW BBS. Next time, for God's sake, get a survey and verify everything!

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I dunno if this is relevant, but my folks were recently forced to redo the bulkhead on their bayfront property in NJ. Even though the township or county were making them do this, they also made them jump through all sorts of hoops to get the permits and even to prove they did not have to pay back rent for the last 50 yrs. (even though they only bought the place in 1998) because some of their stuff was allegedly on township property. My folks had to get an aerial photo of the property from the Army Corps of Engineers from the early 1960's to get this permit and get out of the back rent or taxes or whatever. It was just unreal. Anyway, I dunno if the Army Corps of Engineers does anything in non-coastal areas. But they may have some docs to back up your case.

MRM · 07-10-2007, 12:53 PM

If you're paying your real estate lawyer $250 an hour you should probably turn to him for advice and listen to what he tells you, not us. You do not have a case for a class action lawsuit. You cannot get punitives on a breach of contract claim. You might conceivably be able to get punitives on a fraud claim, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Your measure of damages is the difference between the value of the land as described and the value of the land as it is. The fact that the property has increased in value does not help your damages claim, although it does not mean you have no damages. If the misprepresentation was bad enough you might be able to sue for recision, which is basically you giving the land back and they give you back the money plus the cost to you of holding the land plus interest.