do i need another one?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Salute !

[futuresoptions]

Check out the New Taurus 1911's, Planning on getting one of these for everyday shooting so that I don't put too many rounds through my Caspian....

[nostatic]

well, there are plenty of used Sig GSR 1911s showing up on gunbroker...

[futuresoptions]

Did you take a look at that FN-57?

[nostatic]

no, because I don't want something that is expensive to shoot. That is one of my criteria, and why I like the p220 in 9mm. I would consider a .45acp, but still prefer to stick with 9mm if I can.

[FOG]

Nostic,

If you want it and can afford, buy it.

What is it’s niche going to be? A good pistol you can shoot? A CCW? Target? Training/rounding out your skills?

You will spend far more in ammunition (a magnitude greater is easy) before you wear out a quality pistol. Ammunition costs are much higher than purchase.

Check some of the others out. Give them a chance, at least 1k, to see how you shoot them. Glocks are good pistols, though I don’t shoot them very well. My P-35s feel, good and while shooting them feel like I am getting better scores/times than I actually do (know a few people like this).

Honestly I am a 1911 fan. Shoot it better and they last. Get a good one. If you have a chance to shoot a P210 against a good 1911 in 9X19 you will have a hard decision.

Even a Sig master dealer states a good 1911 beats a Sig. Now a reserve Col. and reserve Ft. Worth cop so he has some familiarity.

S/F, FOG

[Isabo]

Originally Posted by FOG

Even a Sig master dealer states a good 1911 beats a Sig. S/F, FOG

In what terms?
accuracy?
longevity?
build?
knockdown power?
choice of calibres?
quality of materials?
design ergonomics?
aftermarket bits availability for customising or repair?
Don't get me wrong, I love both, but to say which is best needs some qualifiers.

PS
were your friends talking about the P210 or the modern production?

[futuresoptions]

Look at the CZ-85, it is a ambidextrious version of the CZ-75. Gun broker has several with 10rd capacity right now. These guns are very good quality for the money and make for a very good quality carry/plinker gun. Although the exterior finish is probably not up to par with the sig, you will save enough for a ton of ammo, and you will still have a good quality pistol..... but if you are really in love with Sigs, then go for the 220, it's probably what your heart is desiring right now..... But you can always look at what H&K and others are offering before dropping the hammer (he he) I am a little partial to the CZ's because I feel that they are still under valued here in the states. Another good pistol that you may consider would be a Springfield XD. I personally purchased some Polymer pistols (no names mentioned) and they all shot fine, I couldn't get used to the DA only mode, and traded them in for more conventional pistols.... If you are looking for a plinker and nothing else, I would suggest a Ruger MKII Or MKIII in .22 cal w/bull barrel. I love mine, take it hunting and is always alot of fun and very cheap to shoot..... hope this helps....

[FOG]

Isabo,

Basically all of the them, though knockdown power is problematic until you get into .451 Detonics/.45 Super/etc.

A well built 1911 is as accurate at the P210. No hammer bite and better mag releases. Longer lasting than the 220 and 230 series, though by the time you wear out the Sig the pistol cost is small compared to the ammo. No idea on how long the P210 will last but it is probably similar to the 1911.

As far as training a group to a minimal competent standard? Parts swapping for maint. In large organizations? The 220/230 series. These shouldn’t be considerations for an individual purchase though.

S/F, FOG

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by futuresoptions

Look at the CZ-85, it is a ambidextrious version of the CZ-75.....

OMG, now you've done it! I've always been perfectly happy with my Colt CC, and being a lefty, I've just learned to adapt to tools, guns, etc. That being said, I wouldn't mind a "quality semi-auto" that doesn't eject in front of me, and is a bit more "user friendly" for us southpaws. So...for some of you other "lefties", what do you guys/gals prefer, or do you "adapt" like I have?

[Isabo]

Originally Posted by FOG

Isabo,

Basically all of the them, though knockdown power is problematic until you get into .451 Detonics/.45 Super/etc.

A well built 1911 is as accurate at the P210. No hammer bite and better mag releases. Longer lasting than the 220 and 230 series, though by the time you wear out the Sig the pistol cost is small compared to the ammo. No idea on how long the P210 will last but it is probably similar to the 1911.

As far as training a group to a minimal competent standard? Parts swapping for maint. In large organizations? The 220/230 series. These shouldn’t be considerations for an individual purchase though.

S/F, FOG

My points were rhetorical as I'm very familiar with the 1911 and the P210 as well as the later offerings. I think it is an apple and oranges comparison, with the 210 and with the more modern da guns. I think the Sigs, and especially the 210, are usually much more accurate out of the box, especially in 9mm. I think the 45 would have the edge in knock down power and would offer better accuracy in the GM. 451 Detonics magnum and 45 super are a different category and I guess more for handloaders today, My husband prizes every single 451 Detonics magnum case he has. My gut feel is that the 210 will wear less in use, it is certainly made with a much harder steel and built to tighter tolerances. Of course it would not fare as well as a goose loose GM in the bucket of sand test. Ultimately it is down to personal preferences.

[FOG]

Isabo,

SIG does make .45 ACP, .38 Super, and 9X19. Only knock down advantage would be the slightly longer barrel of the 1911 GM profile, and advantage I wouldn’t want to bet my life.

I disagree that the P210 has much harder steel than a good 1911, though if you compare to WWII era or poorer example you are correct. I know of 1911s past the 500,000 round mark, know of no similar tracking on the P210.

As I stated a good 1911. Most of those along with the SIGs will do 1-2” at 25 yds. Better examples of the 1911 and the P210 are better. On a bet about six weeks ago I fired the USMC pistol qual course. But all at 100 yds., i.e. all stages same time/rounds but from 100 yds. w/no sighters. Still shot expert.

Try a 1911 from a good source in the same price range as a P210 (unless you live in Switzerland then disregard the price point).

Is your husband shooting a .451 Detonics chamber? I believe someone was marketing .460 Rowland which will work. If he has a standard say BarSto barrel and wants the same level then get .45 Super brass from Star. The Star brass is good and made on .308 case head only to .45 ACP print length.

S/F, FOG

[Isabo]

I thought we were talking about 9mm as that's what I thought Todd was after.
Ask a gunsmith who has worked on both about how hard a 210 is
I know how accurate the GM is in 45, I don't think it's so accurate in 9, I don't know what shooting expert corresponds to, but doing it at 100 yards is always very impressive, my compliments My husband has several 1911 GMs, the 451 D.mag is a little Detonics (recent present to himself), I think it's a mk6, he cuts down cases from another calibre to reload. The only GM I've tried that comes close to the 210 in terms of "feel" and apparent quality is the Detonics Scoremaster, I'm sure there are others though.

[Milu]

Of course you need another Sig

However, I think you are reaching the point in your pistol owning career that you need to take stock. Why not consider: a good quality 45 government model, saving up for a Sig P210, a Seecamp 32 or a top notch 22 target pistol like a FAS or a Hammerli. Or going against my bias for autos, a Davis or a Korth revolver.

In reality we don't really need all the guns we buy, but it's fun and if one can afford it, what's the problem? The otherside of the argument is the old adage, "beware the man with only one gun, he probably knows how to use it!" ie it's better to concentrate on learning to use one pistol really well. (shame I've never been able to follow this advice myself)

[FOG]

Isabo,

I worked on guns through college. I have worked on a couple of P210s. They are as hard as a good 1911, though cheap 1911 and WWII models are very soft.

My 1st 1911 9X19 was a 70 Gov’t model I picked up cheap, thinking of converting it into a Commander. When I tried it (sitting braced) at 25 yds. w/Federal ball, trigger job and issue sights it averaged just over .5” for 5, 5 shot groups. I have seen many shoot less than 1.5” at 25 yds. The factory .38 Supers on the other hand…

There are over the counter 1911s out there of higher quality than the Detonics.

Having said all of the above I would like a P210, things just never worked out w/funds/timing for essentially a play toy.

Your husband is probably using either .308 or 7.62 cases. I use to go that route but just use the .45 Super brass now.

S/F, FOG

[Milu]

I'm not sure how hard the steel on current 1911s is but I can guarantee that any gunsmith who has put checkering on a 210 will remember it well.

I'm amazed at the accuracy you achieved with a 9mm 1911! I didn't think it was capable of sub 3" groups in 9mm. How do you find accuracy compared to it in 45?

One of the Detonics that Isa has shot is mine, it's a great gun but with the hotloads it likes, the recoil is a little quirky. It's very subjective but I can't think of many 1911 that are better out of the box.

Whatever, I think the 210 and the 1911 are both fantastic and must haves

[tabs]

How bout a Jennings Arms, Raven Arms or Bryco....they will be just fine for Nostatus, whats with all this fancy schmancy stuff.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Sell me your "spoons" and flying carpets before you leave!

We assume that you are leaving to join and sharing a room with this young lady?

I think there is something to be said for Patriotism. I am all for waving the flag, and would take out my gun and give it a 21 round salute everyday.

[FOG]

Milu,

No checkering on a P210, some sight work on slides (Bomar and Millett ffrom memeory). There are lots of them out there, try Wilson, Kimber, etc. 1911s have hard slides and (supposed to be slightly) softer frames.

I take it the Detonics is one of the smaller ones and not a ScoreMaster? Built on their (Oly?) or Colt frame? I am a large guy and only see the Officer size as maybe an ankle or tertiary weapon. If it is the smaller version I bet the recoil/handling characteristics are “interesting”.

I have seen quite a number of the series 70 Gov’t models plus some purpose built guns shoot 1-2”. I was shocked with the groups. I was using 50’ small bore targets and thought I was only getting one round on the paper. All were large holes. Much more accurate than a 70 Gold Cup in 9X19 (1.25-1.5 was the best I was ever able to average).

Ammunition being the huge delta. If you can get some Swiss 154 gr. Ammo… I can take other ammunition that it doesn’t like and “improve” the groups to 4-5” at 25 yds. Kind of like some folks in the P.I. having accuracy issues w/their Steyrs, 6”+ at 100yds, then going to even M80 dropped them to the 1-2” range.

My CCW is that 1911 with a carry comp set-up (Commander slide, 5” bar-Sto) in .45 Super shooting 185 grain Sierra match semi-wadcutters. I have hunted enough with it (though the 1st time was accidental) and others to like the combination.

S/F, FOG

[Milu]

My Detonics is a Scoremaster. Recoil is quirky in that it not only recoils up but simultaneously twists in the hand, it's barely noticable with a proper grip. Isa's husband has one of the compacts with a 451 D-mag conversion unit, that is a little more "lively" but not unacceptably so. I don't think it's a Colt frame.

There are some pistols out there that are much more accurate than the next identical pistol that came down the production line, and as you say, the big variable is consistency in ammunition and finding the one your pistol likes.