VW-sized Porsche hatchback

[Porsche virgin]

Has anybody seen or heard anything about this? It sounds like a VW R32 with a Boxster engine in front.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/hatchbacks/is-porsche-developing-the-ultimate-hot-hatch/#more-3097

[dd74]

I think I'd still rather have a GTi. A 300 hp. engine in a Golf body/chassis that's AWD, might be real heavy, not to mention ridiculously expensive.

[teenerted1]

did you real the last sentance?

"Our 3D artist has put together an image of what a possible Porsche hatch could look like. It’s completely speculative, of course, but still a tantalizing look at what might be around the corner"

[dd74]

Originally Posted by teenerted1

did you real the last sentance?

"Our 3D artist has put together an image of what a possible Porsche hatch could look like. It’s completely speculative, of course, but still a tantalizing look at what might be around the corner"

No, I didn't "real" the last "sentance."

I read the last sentence, and concluded, speculated or not, that I'd still rather have a GTi because this car will probably be heavy and economically unfeasible (for a hatchback).

[Porsche virgin]

I think I'd feel the same way about this car as I do the Cayman...I'll wait until the prices plummet (see Boxster) and buy a used one.

[kach22i]

One of these days someone has got to tell me how it's any cheaper to put the engine in the front than the back.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by kach22i

One of these days someone has got to tell me how it's any cheaper to put the engine in the front than the back.

Fewer lawyers needed on retainer.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by dd74

No, I didn't "real" the last "sentance."

I read the last sentence, and concluded, speculated or not, that I'd still rather have a GTi because this car will probably be heavy and economically unfeasible (for a hatchback).

Why would you think Porsche would build a heavy hatchback? What would make it heavy?

I think you meant to say "...and concluded, speculative or not, that..."

[dd74]

Research the R32, look at the weight, and you tell me why that wouldn't be as heavy if not heavier.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by dd74

Research the R32, look at the weight, and you tell me why that wouldn't be as heavy if not heavier.

I think you are confused on our individual roles here.

Why would you think Porsche would build a heavy hatchback? What would make it heavy?

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

I think you are confused on our individual roles here.

Why would you think Porsche would build a heavy hatchback? What would make it heavy?

Role? I have no role in this. I believe I already stated I'd rather buy a GTi over a Porsche "hatchback." But just to suffice your curiosity:

From Car and Driver regarding the Volkswagen R32:

Owing to all-wheel drive and a big load of standard features, the R32 weighs 3400 pounds, according to VW (more than 300 pounds heavier than the GTI VR6), which has a predictable effect on its ability to overcome inertia. VW forecasts 0 to 60 in 6.4 seconds, about the same as the GTI 1.8T we tested in March 2002. The Evo does it in 5.0, the STi in 4.6.

Now, why would I think, given this history of the VW R32 that the Porsche would be as...um...virtuous as past exploits into awd, high hp hatchbacks?

1) History is history. New found trust is hard to come by with engineering, love or war. The R32 was, has been, and is still called, for lack of better words, a pig.

2) Unless Porsche plans to use some extremely light weight materials in their engine (which sounds like a 3.4 via the hp guesses - how heavy is that? Lighter than a 2.0 turbo in the GTi?) and drivetrain, which given past coverage (as quoted), helped to fatten the GTi some 300#, I would think the weights of a Porsche hatchback to be close or even exceed the R32.

3) Given Porsche and VW's alliance, what will this car be? More Porsche or more VW?

4) If this car is a whisper over $40,000, I wouldn't even consider it. Not with Mazdaspeed 3s running around at Cayman 0-60 times.

[WolfeMacleod]

Meh. Porsche already developed the "hottest hatch" ever....

[island911]

Originally Posted by dd74

Role? I have no role in this. ....

I think Shaun meant to write; "I think you are confused on our individual rolls here." ...as in, that's how I roll.

. .or maybe not.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by island911

I think Shaun meant to write; "I think you are confused on our individual rolls here." ...as in, that's how I roll.

. .or maybe not.

LOL!

If anything, grammatically it's "...confused by or in our original roles..." And that isn't even structurally correct. It should read "you have confused our original roles."

This must be somewhere in the Chicago Manual of Style. But alas, I've already completed enough research on this thread and topic.

[techweenie]

I'm willing to bet that the 'speculative' 3D rendering is very very light. Probably under 10MB.

[oldE]

"Why would you think Porsche would build a heavy hatchback? What would make it heavy?"

Why would they build a heavy hatch? Lets look at the Cayenne for a minute. In order to sell what is basically a unit bodied truck for the hefty price tag they are asking, you end up with adjustable suspension, power everything etc.
The pounds go on when you stiffen the chassis to make it handle, (a desireable thing), keep it quiet inside, (again something people expect in a luxury hatch), give it an uber-drivetrain, (don't want those pesky R32s running away from us), add brakes to slow the thing as required, (oops, more weight than we wanted, better up the rated output on the engine, "Hey, Deiter! How much for carbon brakes for this thing?") and of course you will want the full leather interior so you know why you spent $50 large on a hatchback.

You either make them pay for exclusive or you appeal to a larger market. The larger market wants the 'goodies' Those of us who worship at the altar of Light=Fast bemoan the mass-market approach, but we do not comprise a market large enough for Porsche to cater to our whims.

Les

[onewhippedpuppy]

I don't see Porsche making a hatchback with mediocre performance, it doesn't suit their image. Even the heavy large SUV they created is the fastest and best handling on the market. I could maybe imagine a modern 944, with performance comparable to the Cayman.

Anyone else think the new 1 series BMW is pretty cool? The 135i is especially appealing. What's not to like about 300 HP and about 3000 lbs? Modern 2002, with E46 M3 performance.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

The article mentions the S3 and 1-series as potential competitors in the "hot hatchback" crowd. And we can speculate that Porsche has three paths of development:
1. A hatch version of the Cayenne per Les
2. A direct competitor to other luxury hatches per Matt
3. An early VW GTI-inspired theme

of course there are more, but these are what may be kicking around Porsche engineering, design and marketing.

My question of why you would think Porsche would build a heavy hatch is based on a recent Road & Track article:

"Adding a high-performance Quattro version to a particular model has for many years been part of Audi's policy. It adds prestige and attracts a class of keen drivers who otherwise would probably not have opted for an Audi and who communicate their enthusiasm to friends and prospective buyers.

The previous-generation S3 was discontinued early in 2003, and it took three years for its successor-based on the current A3 hatchback-to arrive.

One could have expected it to be powered by the 250-bhp 3.2-liter V-6 as used in the new TT and also in the Volkswagen Golf R32, but Audi engineers were concerned about weight and instead opted for the much lighter turbocharged 2.0-liter 4-cylinder FSI unit powering the Golf GTI. But this delivers only 200 bhp, not enough for the performance they had in mind. Hence came the decision to utilize a larger turbocharger, capable of raising the boost pressure to 16.8 psi and the 2.0-liter engine's power to 265 bhp."

I can only speculate that Audi engineers concern for weight was not limited to engine choice, but applied to the entire car.

I can't really say if Porsche engineers are still concerned about weight, but I think that if they want to create a performance-competitive hatch more in the 911 tradition than the Cayenne, a 3000 pound hatchback at a competitive price is within their abilities. After all, a base Caymen is around 3000 pounds. Why Porsche would build a heavier hatchback than a Caymen is beyond me.

[Porsche virgin]

When I think of a modern hatch that I'd like as a daily driver, I keep going back to the 1-series wagon (not available here, oh, and I'll take the diesel version, please).



I'm surprised no one has mentioned the obvious down-market competitor...AWD, a powerful boxer engine in the front, with a weight of around 3200 lbs. (although the car is seriously ugly):

[onewhippedpuppy]

I honestly would have owned a 1st gen WRX, I really would. Even the bug-eye models had a certain appeal to them. The new ones are not only fugly, but lack any character. It looks like the bastard child of a Mazda 3 hatchback and a Camry.

Mazdaspeed 3 is the obvious budget choice in this segment, but it does not have the refinement of the A3/S3 or GTi. A RWD Porsche hatch would fill a unique niche, but I wonder if they could make a good business case for it? Hatchbacks in the USA have not typically been home runs, and we are one of Porsche's most important markets. I could see them taking the same approach as BMW, offering a hatchback elsewhere, and a sedan model here. I happen to like hatchbacks, as they are more practical than a comparable sedan, but they never seem to be hot sellers.

Regardless, I could see a lightweight, affordable, back to basics Porsche coupe or hatchback being a huge hit. Commuter car/track weapon? Essentially the exact same thing as the USA 1 series, which I believe is guaranteed to be popular.