Formula 1 nuttiness - Mclaren stripped of 2007 points

[Craig 930 RS]

Can't have a McLaren rep on the podium - the drivers were unaffected by anything legal-wise.
European justice is VERY weird....

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

I had to leave and go to work with 5 laps left so I didn't see the very end. But...... I opened up F1.com and saw a picture of Kimi, Massa, and alonso on the podium. What gives? the FIA said that Alonso and Hamilton will not be eligible to participate in podium award ceremonies for the remainder of the 2007 season. Did they change their minds?

The FIA said that McLaren personel would not be allowed on the podium for the remainder of 2007. That is for the staff in the event that a McLaren driver wins a race, not for the drivers themselves. You will not see Ron Dennis or any other staff there but hopefully the drivers will be there often in the next three races.

Would love to be a fly on the wall when Ron Dennis has a "come to Jesus" talk with Alonzo about his first corner antics with Hamilton. Alonzo's pushing his team-mate off of the track was simply not needed and loved it when Peter Windsor nailed him in the post-race interview about it. Notice that he looked down when asked about it? He knew what he did was wrong.

He is sealing his fate in the F1 community by doing things like this...

[450knotOffice]

Sorry, but I had to chuckle when I saw it because Alonso did exactly what Hamilton does during every start. Hamilton ALWAYS moves waaaaay over to block (er, protect his line). He's done it for every race this year. I've seen him do the same thing to Massa. The main difference this time is that he's too stubborn to lift and tries to stay with Alonso, so Alonso moved him over to the runoff area. There are a few other drivers from the past who would've done the same thing - Senna, Mansell, Schumi, Prost (maybe).

[sammyg2]

Oh. I guess I assumed that ruling included the Mclaren drivers. go figure.

Scott, I was laughing about the same thing. Alonso put hamilton in the weeds on turn one, he must have made six moves to keep his "teammate" from passing him. He didn't do anything that hamilton doesn't do but most of the time the opponents let hammy go by to keep from getting wrecked. Of course MS used to do the same but he was a little more discreet about it most of the time. I guess team orders don't mean squat when the contructors points aren't available, now it's every man for himself at Mclaren.
I can't wait until the next start in two weeks, I bet a quarter that either Alonso or Hamilton won't make it past the first turn with incuring some damage. I'm thinking they will both "hold the line" and wreck each other. If that happens it could be a total meltdown for that team. Maybe if the bosses at mclaren put their feet down and make them both behave they might be OK.

Whaddaya think the chances are of having Kimi and Alonso both driving for ferrari next year? Nah, prolly slim and none. Sure would be cool tho.

[MFAFF]

Sorry Joe, Ron was perfectly OK (!) with FA's driving....at the first corner.

The whole team will however get a hard time....they really didn't get their act together this week end... and RD will not be happy about that.. one bit..

I think we will see more of FA...there are too few good drivers currently to oust him...

[sammyg2]

Ron wasn't the one who got driven off the track. I bet hamilton wasn't too happy about it.
We'll see how they respond in two weeks. i hope that Alonso doesn't wimp out and let hamilton push his way by without a fight.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by MFAFF

McClaren use a base common set up for the cars..and permit each driver to fine tune their own preferences.

In the first races Alonso's fine tuning was used on both cars, as LH prefered to let the more experienced FA find the 'best point' for the car.

After his remarkable series of results he 'felt' competent to do his own fine tuning..with a resultant dip in performance.

This showed just how much Alonso was 'giving' to LH....as a result its clear that Fa is the one getting the most out of the car and so the 'more valuable' driver.

.

Interesting post MFAFF. That would explain a lot.

[legion]

Does anyone think this would not have happened if it didn't automatically hand the constructor's championship to Ferrari?

My guess is the FIA would have done nothing if it would have helped another team instead.

[DaveE]

A few years ago a Coke insider offered Pepsi secret information. Pepsi immediately notified Coca-Cola management and the FBI. THAT is corporate integrity. THAT is what McLaren should have done....................

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by DaveE

A few years ago a Coke insider offered Pepsi secret information. Pepsi immediately notified Coca-Cola management and the FBI. THAT is corporate integrity. THAT is what McLaren should have done....................

Remember it well and the woman who did it is now in jail, right where she belongs. Was nice to see Pepsi "do the right thing" in this case.

[Deschodt]

You know, I never liked Ferrari and Todt all that much, and I was until now giving McLaren the benefit of the doubt, because Ferrari has been caught cheating several times over the years (whether you call illegal devices cheating or not is up to you, I do), while Macca so far had a pretty good reputation... but you have to admit, with those driver email exchanges between de la rosa and Alonso (and goodie 2 shoes Hamilton acting all saintly and innocent, as always), I find it very hard to believe Ron Dennis knew nothing at all about the Ferrari documents...

I mean, come on... Your test drivers and Alsonso are chatting about Ferrari tire usage and weight distribution with the test engineers (because last time I checked drivers did not so much as touch a nut or bolt on their cars), and nobody knew anything ?

Anyway, I also rather enjoyed Alonso putting Hamilton int he weeds at the start... I expected this to happen sooner, and the retaliation should be fun to watch too... Maybe Raikonnen can still be WC if those 2 take each other out ? ;-)

I have to say I liked Hamilton for the first few races, the smile, "genuine" awe at what was happening.... Call me a sour puss but I don't believe he's that genuine anymore, following a few well publicied incidents and radio conversations. He's as good a politician as any future WC ever was, that is to say as much of a ruthless ********* as Senna, prost, schumi and alonso ever were...

I'm gonna root for Kovalainen now, the only seemingly nice guy left in the top 8, but then again maybe Renault will get excluded too ;-)

[cairns]

Well here's my take. The FIA should have used a rifle and not a poorly aimed shotgun fired in a bout of pique.

If the World Council were truly an unbiased, deliberative party they would have meted out appropriate punishment. Alonso- and not McLaren- would be losing the bulk of the points. No one can show that RD knew anything about this or acted anything but ethically- but FA on the other hand- used it, profited by it and then apparently attempted to blackmail his own team with it. He should have been kicked out for the rest of the season- and had his points stripped. If they really wanted this sort of ***** to stop they would have pulled his superlicense too- and put the burden on him to prove he deserved it back. That would have punished him and McLaren.

The ruling was anything but consistent and ample evidence, in my view, of the extreme dislike Mosley harbors for RD. Requiring that no McLaren reps or employees stand on the podium is ridiculous. A lot of honest employees helped put that car there- yet the greedy driver who apparently did cheat and used the information- gets to spray champagne? Why? Why not just limit that portion to Directors or Officers and other particular parties if you must send a message to McLaren?

FIA/Ferrari approval of the FY08 car (Jean Todt and one of their former directors- as well the Director of Sporting Activities for Italy- are on the Council) is equally absurd. Did the information really contain anything that would have helped them design next years car? C'mon. This is pure spite- and only helps one manufacturer.

A $100 million dollar fine?? You've got to be kidding me. Would they have fined Jordan or Spyker or Red Bull this much? Where do you think that money's gonna go? Have they ever even come close to levying a commensurate amount for other penalties?

No constructors points? That would be fine- if the rulings were consistent- I think any manufacturer should lose constructors points every time they or their driver's cheated- but that plainly has not happened. As it is all they did was hand the title to Ferrari- it's meaningless this year.

I love F1 and have ever since I was twelve. But look at it now- the racing seems almost secondary. Bernie and Sam have turned it into a greedy haven for multimillionaires and effete, sexist snots who love dirty dealing and politics.
Nothing like seeing "Puff Daddy" being escorted around by Bernie....I wonder who has the larger retinue....

I won't be attending an F1 race so long as Bernie and Max are involved. Besides I paid 600 Euros for the last ticket and felt like one cow in two hundred thousand being lead to the slaughter house. I treasure the racing but am tired of supporting the F1 circus.