Who will win 2007 F1 Championship ? Poll !

[stealthn]

Henry, I agree with most of what you are saying and I want to use your analogy of cheating on tests; do you not think the person )or team( that provided the answer to the tests should be punished?

It's a black mark on racing and all the teams have cheated at one time or another (yes it's not right) and I think Alonso by blackmailing McLaren with the insider information to get his way, should be banned from motorsports forever.

[Lothar]

Henry,

I understand fair play and competition quite well, thank you. You misinterpreted my post. I am not excusing the actions of Mike Coughlin, who admits to handling the situation with Stepney very badly, or anyone else at McLearen that had knowledge of the information. It appears that, for the most part, there was a knowledge of the existence of Ferrari documents, rather than intimate knowledge of the detail, with a few exceptions cited in the De La Rosa and Alonso emails and text messages.

What I am not excusing is the FIA's tilted playing field that exists when rules are broken. The fact that Stepney informed someone about the illegal movable floor indicates that Ferrari knowingly, rather than inadvertently, broke the rules. For that, they received no penalty other than being told to cease using the device. Kimi won the season opener with the illegal floor. Was Ferrari docked drivers or constructors points gained at Melbourne?

Fair play and honesty my a$$!

[Henry Schmidt]

Last year Michael Schumacher was penalized from first to last at Monaco last year for an inadvertent spin during qualifying which which may have effected Alonso's qualifying. This 22 position penalty could be argued to have effected the entire championship. Where was your indignation then. Alonso intentionally interrupted Hamilton's qualifying at Turkey and only received a 6 position demotion. Of course the team lost constructor points but that as it seems is meaningless.
If we search the record we will find all sorts of apparent injustices. My point is clear "Critisize the cheaters not the sanctioning body or the fans"

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by stealthn

Henry, I agree with most of what you are saying and I want to use your analogy of cheating on tests; do you not think the person )or team( that provided the answer to the tests should be punished?

It's a black mark on racing and all the teams have cheated at one time or another (yes it's not right) and I think Alonso by blackmailing McLaren with the insider information to get his way, should be banned from motorsports forever.

In the stolen test analogy, McLaren is the cheating student, Stepney is the thieving teacher's aid and Ferrari is the Professor.
If your question is should the professor be punished as well as the student and the aid, the answer is hell no.
Suspend the student, kill the aid (at least banish him from the land of racing) and caution the professor be more careful with valuable information.

As for the felonious actions of Fernado Alonso, banish to Nascar. Ron Dennis shows his lack of character by allowing a member of his team to blackmail him and because of a point race, keep that driver in place.

My hope is that Alonso and Hamilton take each other out and Kimi gets a well deserved drivers tiltle. I know it's fantasy but "I have a dream".

[legion]

What if the professor intentionally had the aid pass the information to the student so that the student would get expelled?

[Henry Schmidt]

What if you farted and monkeys flew out your a**.
Just about as likely.

Unless you truly believe that Jean Todt was on the grassy knoll in Dallas.

[Lothar]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

Last year Michael Schumacher was penalized from first to last at Monaco last year for an inadvertent spin during qualifying

Apparently, the FIA did not see the spin as inadvertent but rather a creative parking job.

I do criticize the cheaters in the instances of: Ferrari's flexible floor, Alonso blocking his teammate, Schumacher parking his car on track during qualifying. , and many others.

I will likewise criticize the governing body when treatment of the competitors is not equal and fair. Alonso was a jerk for blocking Hamilton, and as you mentioned, Schumacher did not suffer the same loss of points for himself or his team. The loss of constructors points for McLaren was not insignificant at the time and up until this week, there was still to be an appeal.

I agree with you that, if the allegations are true, Alonso should have been removed from the car. However, the WMSC made it clear that they would be monitoring McLaren for any reprisals against Alonso for his role in revealing the extent to which the Ferrari info was shared or utilized. Therefore, it was made impossible for Ron Dennis to do the right thing and throw Alonso out on his rear end.

Alonso should be at Ferrari next year where he should be welcomed as a hero.

Lastly, your analogy of the student, teacher's aid and the professor is a little off:

Ferrari - Professor
Teacher's aid - Stepney
Student - Mike Coughlin (who was actually suspended by McLaren)

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Lothar

Apparently, the FIA did not see the spin as inadvertent but rather a creative parking job.

They made that determination without any evidence , what so ever.

In the most recent incident there is a plethora of evidence.

Originally Posted by Lothar

Ferrari - Professor
Teacher's aid - Stepney
Student - Mike Coughlin (who was actually suspended by McLaren)

More accurately :
Ferrari = professor
Stepney= teachers aid
Coughlin = tutor
Student and ultimate beneficiary of the theft = McLaren et al.

[livi]

Bumpity-bump.

[Lothar]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

They made that determination without any evidence , what so ever.

How do you know this? Was there not in-car and external camera footage. How 'bout telemetry? Radio transmissions? Can't the FIA request additional information from the teams in conducting an investigation.

Unless you have a release from the FIA that says, "We are penalizing Michael Schumacher in the total absence of any evidence", I'm not buying that one.

You sound like another died in the wool Tifosi.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by livi

Bumpity-bump.

Let me help you with the American translation Markus...

It goes Boogity boogity...

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Lothar

How do you know this? Was there not in-car and external camera footage. How 'bout telemetry? Radio transmissions? Can't the FIA request additional information from the teams in conducting an investigation.

Unless you have a release from the FIA that says, "We are penalizing Michael Schumacher in the total absence of any evidence", I'm not buying that one.

You sound like another died in the wool Tifosi.

I stand corrected. I should have said "no published finding of fact stating any evidence".

As for "died in the wool", I am a died in the wool F1 fan. Even the name SUPERTEC comes from F1, a Renault engine builder. Ferrari just happens to have the best team lately so I am a fan. I have had many favorites over the years but lately Ferrari is the "Professor" and as an engine builder it is easy for me to recognize / appretiate technical superiority.
I am also a Raikkonen and Massa fan (even when they drove for other teams) and you can bet I smiled when Ferrari signed them both. When Schumi left F1 his seat was filled by the fastest man in F1. Who wouldn't be a fan?

Tifosi ? that sounds like a fungus. You can't be a Tifosi without a red silk Ferrari jacket. I keep watching Ebay for my chance to get one.

[livi]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Let me help you with the American translation Markus...

It goes Boogity boogity...

Whadaya know ! Thanks Scott!

I learn stuff here everyday.

[stealthn]

So Ferrari wins the tainted constructors championship....

Of course criminal charges are still pending.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7006974.stm

[livi]

As per Scott, I am Boogity Boogity this one. Time for Fuji Speedway!

Any more votes ?

[Lothar]

I voted for Alonso, because that's what I think will happen. In fact, I hope that anyone but Alonso wins the championship. I read the transcripts from both WMSC hearings. It is fairly apparent from the testimony in the second hearing that Alonso was, albeit perhaps quite subtly, trying to blackmail the team. Alonso's comment to Ron Dennis, later retracted, was a clear threat.

If Alonso can't handle being beaten legitimately on the track, he does not deserve another championship. He has demonstrated dismal sportsmanship.

[livi]

Fluffing this one. Turns out it will be highly interesting to the bitter end.

Anyone care to change their vote (if you could)?

[Henry Schmidt]

The fastest driver (Kimi) is there. It's truly a long shot but I'm a gambler and I like his odds.
The fastest in Brazil could easily be Massa. If things go the way they have been going, Massa gets the pole. Kimi Second, you choose 3rd and forth.
Massa will yield to Kimi, Hammy and the black mailer will battle bitterly. (who knows, crash each other out?)
If Kimi wins, Massa seconds, the cry baby (FA) finishes 3th and Hammy limps in for 6th we get a 2 way tie @ 110 and Alonzo heads off to plot his next deception perhaps at Toyota.
With an overwhelming victory total Kimi wins his first and long overdue championship.
Then we watch Hammy whine (if it's going to be like this, this is not where I want to be) and Fred reiterates sabotage.
I know it's a scenario of convenience but "I have a Dream" .


1st place: 10 points
2nd place: 8 points
3rd place: 6 points
4th place: 5 points
5th place: 4 points
6th place: 3 points
7th place: 2 points
8th place: 1 point

[livi]

For some reason I can´t but to feel a little sorry for young Hamilton.

[Aerkuld]

Have to say that I like Henry's thinking. I'd love to see Kimi win and I think he actually has a decent shot. I'm suprised Massa didn't do a better job of preventing Alonso from scoring points in China, but Brazil may be a different story.