Who will win 2007 F1 Championship ? Poll ! - Page 5

MFAFF · 10-08-2007, 12:27 AM

Livi,

Are you serious? He made a number of small errors, so did his team, but in the end he is the driver of the car. In those conidtions and the condition of his tyres, which by his own admission were not good he 'should' have come in when he knew he was 'cooked'. I suggest that was two laps before he did come in.

All good experience for him and a great lesson for all involved.

Henry,

Such vitriol for FA...wow... good thing you seem to have forgotten MS's blackmailing of Ferrai for all those seasons....I'm number one or else...I don't come/ don't stay etc etc...you are also forgetting the accusations of that well known Honda driver Aryton Senna agains that well known McLaren driver Alain Prost (and vice versa) that the other was getting a better engine/ chassis than the other whilst in the same team....plus accusations of 'defective' equipment...oh boy those years were fun. Or talk about Nigel Mansell for being a whiner... he was WWC (World Whining Champion) several years running, the only time it was really justified as his max speed blow out in Adelade...

JV was also not above the odd dig....

So its a pretty consistent attitude to have amongst the 'winners'...the only recent ones who did not engage in this were Mika Hakkinen, because he was by merit, record and senority the #1 McLaren driver and ironically FA at Renault because he too was the undisputed, by merit and ability, #1 driver.

Maybe there is a correlation between the need of drivers to believe that they are the 'chosen' one and hence have access to the best gear (as they would have done in the lower Formulae) and the need of the teams to get two cars into the top scoring positions... and the perception by pretty much all the teams that the Constructors Championship is the most important, hence the need to provide highyl competitive equipment to both drivers to win as many points for themselves as possible, even it if it means pissing off a driver or two.

But we are shaping up for a great race in Brazil...I think Massa will be on pole, with KR doing everything he can to be second by the end of the first turn....this will then allow KR and Massa to swap places and the Ferrari to develop the widest rear track you have ever seen....

KR to win, Massa and LH as DNFs, taking each other out at turn three as LH emerges from his second pitstop and Massa is coming down out of turn two....

FA potters along all race in fourth.. pressing both LH and Massa but never in danger, although Vettel and the BMWs might get a bit frisky...

In the end then its Fa as WDC, with KR second and LH.. not an accurate reflection of the season but seeing as Ferrari were awarded the CC it makes no sense anyway.

Fun and games...

911teo · 10-08-2007, 04:09 AM

LH will win. He'll stay a mile off any possible collision. Kimi will win the race but LH will finish 4th making the win useless.

MFAFF · 10-08-2007, 04:30 AM

In order to stay out of trouble he needs to be out front....from the off so he will need to be light to get on the front row...but Massa can go lighter...and be on pole.

With that in mind the other option for LH is to go long.. .not the best at Interlagos but not impossible....but he will lose time on every lap if he is too heavy.. the uphill to the finish straight is a killer....he would then have a few laps with a lighter car in order to close the gap and perhaps win on the ptistop, but that pit lane exit is just too damn convientent for 'trouble'...we have seen accidnets take place from way back there on cold tryes..

KR has nothing to lose...can do light, can do heavy....and go balls out to win...

FA is in a long game position... he does not need to play .. he needs to be ahead of KR and make sure that LH is down in 4th....

The one who has all to lose is LH. If he plays a short first stint he will end up in traffic...and Massa's strategy will be altered to hamper him, bet on it.

They have even more to lose if LH wins the championship than FA....

Aerkuld · Aerkuld's Garage

Mika Hakkinen was always my favorite because of his 'down to business' attitude (There's a reason my son is called Mikaiah). I suppose that's why I like Kimi too, as he was another Finn and Mika's replacement. Apart from the decision to leave McLaren at the end of last season, which may or may not have been due to Alonso joining and his #1 status being at risk, he doesn't seem to whine. To be honest he doesn't really say much at all and when he does you have trouble understanding him.

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

MFAFF
I have watched the arrogance of "superstars" damage every sport I have ever enjoyed. I watched my favorite NBA team decimated by the would be "superstar" that belongs in prison not on the pedestal of roll model.
I've watched steroids destroy competitive sport at all levels and rap artists granted immunity from common decency because they generate a large corporate bottom line.
Now we have extremely talented drivers acting like babies because they don't get their way.
It's crap and I will vigorously complain when the whiny little *****s damage the very essence of the only sport I truly love.
I'm just tired of talented people forgetting the blessing of talent itself.
Which one of us wouldn't drive an F1 car for free.
Back in my youth I had the honor of racing motorcycles for a living. At one point I was partnered with a "superstar" that seized our entire annual budget to race an inconcequencial three month series. That left us with no budget for the remaining six months of our season. When the budget was gone he "the poodle headed superstar" was gone too. I finished the season on my dime because I loved the sport not the money. Perhaps the superstars should try to remember that concept.

MFAFF · 10-09-2007, 08:34 AM

Henry,

Spoiled superstars do make 'sport' at this level nothing more than light entertainment at best and cynical exploitation of the fans...

But:-

1) We (as in the fans) still watch the TV shows thus allowing the advertising revenue to be generated and thus money pouring into the 'sports'. If we did not and viewing numbers declinded the sports would change to reagin that audience....however numbers increase etc etc...so who is right and who is wrong...

2) How far back do you think we need to go to find 'true' sportsmen/ women who participated for the fun of it...

Lets look at F1...or previous equivalents... do we go bakc to the Sennas and Prosts... hardly great role models... to James Hunt and Lauda.. agin not much there to aspire to... Jackie Stewart? Jim Clark and Stirling Moss... or even Fangio... how about further back ad the Silver Arrows...opps better not go there.

I think in 'racing' the top level is also gonig to attract a high percentage of selfish, self-centred and arrogant SOBs who take more of the pie in return of greater success at the expense of others. They drive things forward and 'raise' the game. The question is does this make the sport 'better' or more marketable?

I have seen F1 move from being a challenge for the driver to being an efficiency challenge to being an engineering challenge to its current 'financial challenge'. At each time the justification is cost or reduction of cost and yet it still increases. Safety has been bandied about as well and JS was right in his safety campaign.

But as F1 moves into the realm of esoteric aero package development to gain an advantqage and road cars develop more active control features and bigger and bigger wheels and tyres the discontect is increasing....

Each time the cost of the advantage increases making favouritism more and more logical and acceptable as winning is the only option.

We have a situation now where the driver's real skill is less in driving the car and more in managing his section of the team to deliver a better product for his success and hence value etc. One could question whether the actual winning is now a means to an end ($$$) rather than an end in itself. Afterall none of these guys is unintelligent, none of them would struggle to earn a decent living once they retire, yet they demand stratospheric salaries in order to win for the 'team'. This in turns places pressure on them to deliver and they in turn put pressure on the team to deliver, perhaps forcing favouritism etc etc.

Its a vicious littel circle (I'd say its a circle jerk but that another view) and it allows the selfish and arrogant to step all over the others in order to achieve their aims.....and so it goes...round and round...

Jims5543 · 01:15 PM

Hamilton will win it. He already said so besides, he declared himself C.T.S.I. or Coldest thing since Ice.

He says he is cooler than the Iceman he just keeps his cool inside and hidden.

livi · 10-09-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerkuld

..he doesn't seem to whine. To be honest he doesn't really say much at all and when he does you have trouble understanding him.

Like most people from Finland and northern Sweden. Probably among the toughest and most recilient people in the world. Not speaking unless absolutely necesary. Completely calm but a big log of Oak wood when push comes to shove.

In comparison we from southern Sweden are softies and the wimps from Stockholm are all complete whining turds.

Jims5543 · 10-09-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

1st place: 10 points
2nd place: 8 points
3rd place: 6 points
4th place: 5 points
5th place: 4 points
6th place: 3 points
7th place: 2 points
8th place: 1 point

Going into the last race.

Hamilton - 107
Alonso - 103
Raikkonnen - 100

My prediction for Brazil -

- Hamilton 4th place in a safe race not pushing hard - 5 points = 112 Wins WC.
- Kimi 1st (Massa will yield to him) - 10 points = 110 comes in 2nd WC
- Alonso 3rd place behind the quicker Ferrari and in front of safe Hammy - 109, 3rd in WC
- Massa 2nd place yielding to Kimi - 8 points = 92, 4th in WC

This is for a dry race, if it rains all bets are off.

MFAFF · 10-09-2007, 10:50 AM

Jim,

Swap alonso and Massa round....

Agree Kimi will be working for a win... so will Alonso.... Massa will try to stop McLarens but I do not think he will be able to do it... LAnos will go long and Hamilton will go shorter...

Massa needs pole to be able to influence the race....with Kimi just behind to be on the front row..

My guess is Kimi will 'take'the lead from Massa around lap six or seven...and begin to back everyone up....so when he pits.. a couple of laps in front of LH Kimi is already gone... when LH comes out of the pits Massa will be right there and they will tangle, not deliberately but because LH needs to be in front...

At that point FA will either be clear to go second or be ready to pit during the SC period...

Nice and easy...

'Job done'.

Jims5543 · 10-09-2007, 11:20 AM

I think it will be a Ferrari front row and a one two Ferrari race. I am not sure Massa will be honestly faster than Kimi on Sunday. Kimi was not on fire there last year coming in 5th so I am not sure if he will be that fast there this year either, obviously Massa likes this track and is very fast on it.

Neilk · 10-09-2007, 12:58 PM

How many less laps than Kimi will Massa go? I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't 5-6 laps less. Like others have mentioned, Massa will get the pole in a light car and cede the position to Kimi and hold up the rest.

I am sick of Alonso. Earlier in the season, everyone was saying that Kimi was a massive disappointment. He didn't whine, he just drove his ass off. Alonso on the other hand just seems to whine. I'm looking forward to Alonso finding another team.

Wrecked944 · 10-09-2007, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

He says he is cooler than the Iceman he just keeps his cool inside and hidden.

That was disproven in China. When he siezed the race lead, Kimi basically bullied his way past Hamilton using pure intimidation. Then, on the next lap, Hamilton choked and lost control entering the pits. Game Over.

I found that move to be very interesting. Kimi is not normally a bully. He usually passes with deception and finesse - not brute force. And besides, with Hamilton entering the pits, Kimi was about to get the race lead by default anyway. So I think that pass was a calculated move. I think Kimi was sending a message to Hamilton saying, "I want the championship and I'm coming through you to get it." For a guy as reticent as Kimi, I thought that message was loud and clear. And it was obvious that Hamilton was rattled by it.

Jims5543 · 10-09-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFAFF

Jim,

Swap alonso and Massa round....

We will see, Massa was blazing fast last year. I agree about the lighter fuel load and the pole for Massa, great stategy, then an early pit, but, I think he will have the pace to stay out in front.

My only concern, and I am contradicting myself here, is Kimi and his pace, he did not have it there last year. This can mean 1 of 2 things.

Either, he is not good on that track, or, McLaren does not have a good set up for that track. Renault did not either last year, whereas Ferrari seems to have it nailed.

So, I am hoping its the later. I would prefer Kimi to come in second in the WC behind Hamilton.

As much as I think Hammy earned the WC this year I am still a huge fan of Kimi and would prefer to see him get it.

11 days and counting. This is more exciting than last years finale.

Jims5543 · 10-09-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JanusCole

That was disproven in China. When he siezed the race lead, Kimi basically bullied his way past Hamilton using pure intimidation. Then, on the next lap, Hamilton choked and lost control entering the pits. Game Over.

I found that move to be very interesting. Kimi is not normally a bully. He usually passes with deception and finesse - not brute force. And besides, with Hamilton entering the pits, Kimi was about to get the race lead by default anyway. So I think that pass was a calculated move. I think Kimi was sending a message to Hamilton saying, "I want the championship and I'm coming through you to get it." For a guy as reticent as Kimi, I thought that message was loud and clear. And it was obvious that Hamilton was rattled by it.

I think your right on with this analogy. Lets see if it rattles Hammi enough to choke in Brazil.

MFAFF · 10-09-2007, 01:44 PM

In order to win pole Massa will need to be so light he will lose lots of time to LH and FA....he will not be able to retain second place....LH and Kimi will be on similar loads....Kimi to be on the front row and get in front of Massa, FA can afford to be fourth.

Kimi will need to pit a lap before LH, so that Massa can play 'rear gunner' again.....LH will need to be in front of Massa after the first stops....and so coming out of the pits on cold tyres with Massa right there is going to contact... LH has neither the experience to deal with this, nor the intelligence behind the wheel... see China to play the long game...he will acquire it I have no doubt..

So Alonso slots into second place...and retains his place to the end...

livi · 10-18-2007, 02:42 AM

Time for a final bumpitybump.

Last minute votes.

sammyg2 · 10-18-2007, 07:11 AM

Hypothetical situation here, just for fun:
massa qualifies with only about 2 gallons of fuel which puts him on the pole with hammy second. First corner, massa takes out hamilton in an "accident".
Kimi fights off alonso and wins the championship. Massa gets a fine and a reprimand, but ferrari quietly gives him a huge bonus to more than cover the fine.
Naw, that could never happen in F1.

Jims5543 · 10-18-2007, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFAFF

In order to win pole Massa will need to be so light he will lose lots of time to LH and FA....he will not be able to retain second place....LH and Kimi will be on similar loads....Kimi to be on the front row and get in front of Massa, FA can afford to be fourth.

Kimi will need to pit a lap before LH, so that Massa can play 'rear gunner' again.....LH will need to be in front of Massa after the first stops....and so coming out of the pits on cold tyres with Massa right there is going to contact... LH has neither the experience to deal with this, nor the intelligence behind the wheel... see China to play the long game...he will acquire it I have no doubt..

So Alonso slots into second place...and retains his place to the end...

Why would Massa need to be so light? He creamed everyone last year for pole and walked away with the race.

He just needs a good clean lap in Q3 and he has pole with a good race strategy.

Wow! I cannot wait until Saturday and Sunday!!

I am sad too no more F1 weekends for a while.

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

With Ferraris chassis improvement over the past few races and their absolute dominance of the field last year on an obviously inferior tire, Ferrari should have the front row.
If not the front row certainly Massa 1st and Kimi third. The Fred or Hambone 2nd.
With Massa first and Kimi second, Massa moves over to yield the corner to Kimi and the race is run like that to the end.
Kimi
Massa
Fred
With that scenario Kimi beats Fred and wins the championship if the hamster finishes 6th or worse.
If Kimi is third, similar scenario. Massa slides across second and allowing Kimi through on the inside . The race finishes the same Kimi
Massa
?
Ferrari can only control their destiny so far.
Kimi first and Massa second is their best strategy and Ferrari loves strategy.
Where's Ross Braun when you need him.