Prove there is a DEVIL

[frogger]

Perhaps P-O-P should have said, there exists no proof of a god, devil, heaven or hell. Just beliefs.

[Moneyguy1]

With all these threads, the basic questions are still unanswered:

What is the purpose of life? Why are we here?

Seems to me that without a higher purpose (note I did not say "a God"), life is meaningless. And if this is the case, that is downright depressing!!

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

What is the purpose of life? Why are we here?

To me, Christ's central message was to make the life of the man next to you better. This can take many forms, from personal sacrifice to teaching discipline and everything in between. The rare times I am honestly able to practice this concept, it is in my experience, when my own life has the most meaning.

To me, that's the meaning of life.

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

With all these threads, the basic questions are still unanswered:

What is the purpose of life? Why are we here?

Seems to me that without a higher purpose (note I did not say "a God"), life is meaningless. And if this is the case, that is downright depressing!!

Why does there have to be a higher purpose? What is wrong with enjoyng the life and family you have and doing everything you can to enable their future success.
So what if life is ultimately a futile process in a universe that will eventually die a thermodynamic death. The universe as we know it has existed almost 14 billion years without us and will exist for at least trillions of years after we are gone, so I don't think our presence is necessary to define its success or failure.
Enjoy what you can and realize that ultimately, your success or failure here is determined by the success of your offspring within our temporal window.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

With all these threads, the basic questions are still unanswered:

What is the purpose of life? Why are we here?

42

[frogger]

Our purpose in life is to burn up Wayne's bandwidth.

[Moneyguy1]

"I gave you the answer. You didn't ask me what the question was. I will have to think about that...."

Hey...it's OK to "live in the present", Steve, if that is what you are saying. I have no problem with that. However, for me, it all seems rather pointless; the concept that "life has no purpose but itself". Seems as if we, as thinking beings have evolved to a degree where this kind of thinking makes us (most of us) a bit uneasy. I know it makes me feel that way. I would feel somehow disconnected and incomplete if my concept of life was limited to the idea that it has no meaning other than the moment.

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Just my take on life. Everything is temporary, changable, and tenuous. To think otherwise is foolish. You truly "own" nothing.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

"I gave you the answer. You didn't ask me what the question was. I will have to think about that...."

Hey...it's OK to "live in the present", Steve, if that is what you are saying. I have no problem with that. However, for me, it all seems rather pointless; the concept that "life has no purpose but itself". Seems as if we, as thinking beings have evolved to a degree where this kind of thinking makes us (most of us) a bit uneasy. I know it makes me feel that way. I would feel somehow disconnected and incomplete if my concept of life was limited to the idea that it has no meaning other than the moment.

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Just my take on life. Everything is temporary, changable, and tenuous. To think otherwise is foolish. You truly "own" nothing.

Respectfully, your thinking seems to be why humans created religion and gods.

It is my opinion that "now" and every single moment I am alive is important; not waiting or imagining something that may or may not exist. Make the best of what's around now. I find life deep, profound and rich in emotion and meaning, not always good but always real.

One "owns" every moment and from that ownership can find fulfillment and meaning . . . or wait for potentially nothing.

Best,

Kurt

[snowman]

The Devil, not religion, not God is the reason for all the pain and suffering in this world. The Devil is the only rational explanation of why the world is as evil as it is. According to religious teaching God gave everyone FREE WILL, in other world what happens in this world is our choice, not Gods, not Religion. According to most religion this world is a TEST, a test that we must pass to have everlasting life. Evil things happen because of the Devil and Free Will of man to live for the present and not what may be waiting for him in the long run.

So to all of those that claim Religion is the cause of all of our problems, you are simply ignorant, which is clear by your postings. Your ignorance only makes you look stupid. That you blame religion for mans woes shows that ignorance. The Devil is the explanation for all of mans hate and discontent. He is responsible for the likes of you, denouncing good religious people, when you should be looking inward at your own lack of education.

You proclaim that religion is what ales this world for one simple reason, religion has stated that your actions, your belief system is bogus, and you being intellectually lazy and unwilling to educate your self cannot see why. You are being self indulgent and delusional trying to justify a lifestyle that cannot be justified, even if there were no religion. Your choices are simply wrong and you do not like being told so, that simple.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by snowman

The Devil, not religion, not God is the reason for all the pain and suffering in this world. The Devil is the only rational explanation of why the world is as evil as it is. .

Rational ra·tion·al (adj)

1. agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible: a rational plan for economic development.
2. having or exercising reason, sound judgment, or good sense: a calm and rational negotiator.
3. being in or characterized by full possession of one's reason; sane; lucid: The patient appeared perfectly rational.
4. endowed with the faculty of reason: rational beings.
5. of, pertaining to, or constituting reasoning powers: the rational faculty.
6. proceeding or derived from reason or based on reasoning: a rational explanation.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by snowman

So to all of those that claim Religion is the cause of all of our problems, you are simply ignorant, which is clear by your postings. Your ignorance only makes you look stupid. That you blame religion for mans woes shows that ignorance. The Devil is the explanation for all of mans hate and discontent. He is responsible for the likes of you, denouncing good religious people, when you should be looking inward at your own lack of education.

I think the number one justification for killing in the history of mankind is "the name of god." The "invisible bad guy" runs a poor second.

You proclaim that religion is what ales this world for one simple reason, religion has stated that your actions, your belief system is bogus, and you being intellectually lazy and unwilling to educate your self cannot see why. You are being self indulgent and delusional trying to justify a lifestyle that cannot be justified, even if there were no religion. Your choices are simply wrong and you do not like being told so, that simple.

This is even more ridiculous. I can find religious justification for ANYTHING I want to do. I can show you religious justification for anything from pedophilia to murder & anything in between.

I think the number one justification for killing in the history of mankind is "the name of god."

[kang]

Originally Posted by frogger

Another way to look at this is when man created the concept of god, man modeled his relationship with god on man's parent/child relationship. This is more likely.

This is one aspect of the contrived nature of religion I was talking about. Man created (or contrived) the concept of god, and then contrived all the details about it.

[kang]

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

With all these threads, the basic questions are still unanswered:

What is the purpose of life? Why are we here?

Seems to me that without a higher purpose (note I did not say "a God"), life is meaningless. And if this is the case, that is downright depressing!!

The purpose of life is the purpose you give it. If your life is meaningless without a higher purpose, that is your problem. It is up to you to give your life meaning. Don’t wait for some outside imaginary entity to decide for you what meaning your life has. Decide for yourself what is important to you, then go do it.

The non-existence of a higher purpose (god) is not depressing. What is depressing is being a sheep and letting something else tell you what your life means. What is depressing is sitting around on your a$$ waiting for some imaginary friend to come and tell you what your life means or what your purpose is.

[kang]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

To me, Christ's central message was to make the life of the man next to you better. This can take many forms, from personal sacrifice to teaching discipline and everything in between. The rare times I am honestly able to practice this concept, it is in my experience, when my own life has the most meaning.

To me, that's the meaning of life.

Making the life of the man next to you better is certainly a valid purpose for your life. I feel the same way as you in “the rare times I am honestly able to practice this concept.” But note, neither god nor christ is required for this.

[72doug2,2S]

Originally Posted by kang

Making the life of the man next to you better is certainly a valid purpose for your life. I feel the same way as you in “the rare times I am honestly able to practice this concept.” But note, neither god nor christ is required for this.

Hello Antichrist. Your science will inevitably lead you into despair, but until then enjoy HD TV!

[Moneyguy1]

Kurt:

Define "now". It is one of the most tenuous concepts known to mankind. Some philosophers posit that thee is no such thing as "now", since it cannot be grasped.

Kang: Who said anyting about religion in my post? It is the inherent selfishness and self centered attitude of so many that I find depressing. The attitude of "What's in it for me" seems to be beneath what should be a fulfilling life. If some find the concept of a higher power helpful so what? Even AA uses the concept to help people learn how to stay sober, and they do not advocate that it must be a God. In addition, no matter if it is Buddha, Moses, Christ or a Hairy Muffin, if it helps some people channel their lives, what is the harm? Why try to convince people continually that they are "wrong" when you, yourself do not have provable absolute data one way or the other. That is what makes your arguments no more valid than tekkors. Both convinced they are right, but only posting opinions.

I have had life experiences that I cannot explain. That does not mean there are not explanations, only that I am not aware of what those explanations are. I prefer t think there is a meaning to life that transcends this limited existence, based on the scientific hypothesis that matter and energy cannot be destroyed, only changed (or interchanged, if you refer). We, with our limited senses cannot see ultraviolet, cannot sense microwave emissions from the galaxies but we have learned how to detect these. What future findings may reveal, none of us can be sure. And, that philosophy is as valid as any other, but I will not attempt to convince you ar anyone else that I am right and you are wrong.

I refuse to limit myself in my thinking. Infinite possibilities.

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by snowman

The Devil, not religion, not God is the reason for all the pain and suffering in this world. The Devil is the only rational explanation of why the world is as evil as it is. According to religious teaching God gave everyone FREE WILL, in other world what happens in this world is our choice, not Gods, not Religion. According to most religion this world is a TEST, a test that we must pass to have everlasting life. Evil things happen because of the Devil and Free Will of man to live for the present and not what may be waiting for him in the long run.

So to all of those that claim Religion is the cause of all of our problems, you are simply ignorant, which is clear by your postings. Your ignorance only makes you look stupid. That you blame religion for mans woes shows that ignorance. The Devil is the explanation for all of mans hate and discontent. He is responsible for the likes of you, denouncing good religious people, when you should be looking inward at your own lack of education.

You proclaim that religion is what ales this world for one simple reason, religion has stated that your actions, your belief system is bogus, and you being intellectually lazy and unwilling to educate your self cannot see why. You are being self indulgent and delusional trying to justify a lifestyle that cannot be justified, even if there were no religion. Your choices are simply wrong and you do not like being told so, that simple.

Sorry, but that is a very irrational rant. Evil is relative, not absolute. Environmental/social hazards, competition for resources, obligate and opportunistic parasitation, genetic instability/variation, and chance are responsible for most suffering and what we would call "evil". No need to invoke a supernatural agent. In fact, there is no sign of a supernatural agent in any of this.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

Kurt:

Define "now". It is one of the most tenuous concepts known to mankind. Some philosophers posit that thee is no such thing as "now", since it cannot be grasped.

. . . snip . . .

I don't have much of a problem understanding "now"; maybe it's because I am not a philosopher.

I can't change the past, but it serves me well as I live my life "now". And I cannot predict the future, but I can decide where I would like to go. That moment in between is now.

I may die suddenly within the next few seconds or live for many more years, but "now" I can decide whether I am a hapless victim in a random world or a determined human who is very much in control of my life. In my life, I own my "now".

Maybe it's perception, but my choice to take responsibility and determine my future gives me purpose and my loved ones, especially my daughter, give me inspiration. If I were to lose all of my loved ones, I would find inspiration and purpose in something else; this is my nature. There's no shortage of things in this world that need inspired people, therefore no shortage of things to provide purpose in one's life. Inspiration, purpose and fulfillment are there for anyone who wants to engage.

FWIW.

Best,

Kurt

[72doug2,2S]

Originally Posted by sjf911

Sorry, but that is a very irrational rant. Evil is relative, not absolute.

Environmental/social hazards, competition for resources, obligate and opportunistic parasitation,........... are responsible for most suffering and what we would call "evil". No need to invoke a supernatural agent. In fact, there is no sign of a supernatural agent in any of this.

Isn't that just a lot of words to describe greed? Greed is absolute, it comes from being selfish.

Always with the show me a sign, give me a test, show me the data, give me the peer reviewed journals, and proof.

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by 72doug2,2S

Isn't that just a lot of words to describe greed? Greed is absolute, it comes from being selfish.

Always with the show me a sign, give me a test, show me the data, give me the peer reviewed journals, and proof.

Well, at least I don't hallucinate about invisible buddies. By the way, greed is relative not absolute.