*******s suck.

[K. Roman]

Not to hi jack but, I purchase cell phones for my employees and one time I needed to end a service early and the operator asked why. I said that the guy was no longer alive! Well, the phone was under my name, the employee was just using it, so there won't be a record of him being deceased. Anyhow, they waved the early termination fee of $200! Yeah!

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Efficient market?

Go to business school and study the insurance industry. If there is a less efficient market - I'm not sure what it is.

In my neck of the woods they have privatized power, public transport and telephones. All are are now inefficient and expensive - when the used to be efficient and cheap.

Watch CNN for an hour. Then switch to BBC for an hour. Then tell me about the virtues of privatization.

This is consistent with my observations as well.

Chris, I get it. Pure competition, as a model. Sure, that's pretty basic. And yes, it makes those industries a poor comparison with each other. My comparison wasn't between industries. You won't get a lot of sympathy here or anywhere else, defending the cell phone or insurance industries.

I'm curious as to what complaints someone might have of their electric power vendor. It would seem to me that if power is continuously provided without interruption, then there would be nothing to complain about except price. Talk about a commodity. Even water can be differentiated. Try convincing someone that your power is better than the next power company.

Oh and by the way, while I agree with you that buildings are hard-wired to the grid and it all comes from the generation facilities through the same transmission lines, be aware that in your lifetime there will be privatization of this industry, and you will have a choice of power companies. I know, I know. It makes no sense. But that's the agenda. The reason? Guess.

[legion]

Supe, believe it or not, I think the power industry should not be deregulated--for all of the reasons you have cited. Being a natural monopoly, the market cannot be efficient--and the only viable alternative is regulation.

However, when an efficient market is present (or can be created--which is an impossibility for electricity), I prefer an efficient market to regulation. Insurance, groceries, cell phones, etc. are all in efficient markets.

[Rot 911]

I don't understand why anyone gets a cell phone contract. I have used the T-mobile pay as you go method for years. If I want a new phone I go buy it and just switch out SIMS (thanks to help from this board for that). My phone as all the cool features and cost me $70 at Target. The more minutes you buy, the cheaper they are.

[Rick Lee]

I do it because I don't even come close to using the smallest minute plan on my own, but added my lady to my account for $10 a month more and now we can talk airtime free to our hearts' content. We take turns paying the bill every other month and so it has cut my costs way down.

[MRM]

The legal community in Minnesota is pretty small. I know Klobuchar and Lori Swanson slightly. I am better acquainted with another Minnesota lawyer who gets some mention on this board, Member of Congress Keith Ellison.

I dislike Swanson and Klobuchar intensly. I have no idea why anyone likes them. They are the sharks of the sharks. As for Ellison, I merely dislike him.

[Superman]

It is tentatively comforting to hear your reasonable view of the electric power industry. And for that confession, you get this: In industries where it makes sense (the vast majority) I too prefer competition. Capitalism has its efficient mechanisms, and I'm all for using them.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by Superman

Now, I'd like you to tell me why I should support selling these (publicly owned) generation and transmission systems to a wide array of private companies so they can sell me back my electricity at a profit.

I have a good friend who is currently negotiating with the Public Utilities folks in Seattle on this very issue.

It seems your local (largely hydroelectric) power generating capacity is highly variable. One years kilowatt production may be 50% less or more than the previous years production. Fluctuating income is apparently a bad thing when drawing up government budgets. They want consistency. They would like to sell the "risk" in return for a steady (although slightly lesser) income.

[MRM]

There's no reason the electrical industry can't be a regulated monopoly for its dealings with consumers, but still be free to buy and sell electricity to deliver the best price for its customers.

I like the mutualization of the industry. I grew up as a member of the local REA (Rural Electrical Agency,) which is one of the few good ideas Lyndon johnson ever had. Basically it is a mutual company or cooperative formed as a government agency for the sole purpose of delivering electricity to rural areas. The customers were the owners. I'd like to see all power companies run like that.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

That's penny-wise but pound-foolish. It will stay on your record for something like seven years, and then result in higher interest rates on *anything* you try to finance during that period. I.E. it will probably cost you more than $400 in the long run.

-Wayne

I disagree. The only stuff I finance are sometimes cars or my bike when the rate is just a giveaway like 2-4%, which I have gotten with no problem since this collections issue. My FICO was a 746 last I checked. If/when this collection hits, it may bring it down 50 pts. right away. But my FICO will climb back up every month, since I'm never late and not overextended. Anyone with a 700 FICO can pretty much get a signature loan for anything.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by MRM

The legal community in Minnesota is pretty small. I know Klobuchar and Lori Swanson slightly. I am better acquainted with another Minnesota lawyer who gets some mention on this board, Member of Congress Keith Ellison.

I dislike Swanson and Klobuchar intensly. I have no idea why anyone likes them. They are the sharks of the sharks. As for Ellison, I merely dislike him.

"Small world" would be an understatement. I met Klobuchar, (with her dad), during the campaign, Al Franken over the summer and exchange pleasantries with Walter and Joan Mondale on a daily basis as they walk their dog past my job site. My Dad and WM went to law school together at the "U" 50 years ago and still know all of the same people they knew then. He refers to my dad by a nick-name only used by people who've known him 40+ years.

The only thing that I know about AK is that she is Jim's daughter and is completely unqualified to be in the US senate other than her famous (in MN.) last name. AF is a funny guy, but the thought of him in a position of power is scary. Mondale is the son of a rural, southern MN. minister and if you looked up the word "gentleman" in the dictionary, his picture would probably appear.

[Superman]

Indeed. I think a friend of mine is Ellison's brother.

Moses, I got no problem with arrangements that make sense. Indeed, unfortunately, part of what makes sense is that this cheap, adjustable hydro power should arguably be shared with the rest of the country. we have very low power rates here. so again, I understand that some things make sense. what does not make sense to me is pretending there is "competition" just because three different companies want to sell me the power that comes from the transformer thirty feet from my house. That I paid for. Frankly, the residential customer is a PITA. Deregulation means sweet deals for aluminum rolling plants subsidized by higher residential rates. BS.

But I can verify that hydro power is adjustable. Spillway gates open and close second-by-second, according to the energy draw. I've watched them.