Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 3558782)

Pretty closed minded point of view Mule. Ultimately, RWD musclecars still are king in drag racing. On a road course, they are anything but.

Really, you might want to point that out to the folks at Porsche, Mercedes Benz, Ferrari, Lomborghini, Maserati, Bentley and Aston Martin. I may have missed a fer, but the list of FWD offerings from those folks seems to be short. And I think they have a few wins between them. FWD only works with light weight & low HP.

All that power is great, but worthless in a car that is inable to put it down while cornering. The IRS Mustangs do handle well, for a Mustang. There's always that caveat. Ultimately, their suspension is too simple and they are too heavy to totally compete on a road course.

Really, You may want to point that fact out to some folks that have done fairly well with them. Additionally, torque beats buzz hp hands down. Before you get your argument to prepared on that, AUDI TDI. Case closed.

On the other hand, with a few thousand in modifications and typically without even cracking the engine, an STi or Evo can hang with all but the most exotic supercars on earth. You may not like them, or want to drive them, but you should respect them.

So throw a few bucks at an Evo & look out 996TT. Surely you jest.

Originally Posted by Superman (Post 3558984)

Liberals have bigger Johnsons than conservatives do.

Originally Posted by SlowToady (Post 3558820)

"Put similar boost on a 928 and see what happens?" Mule, seriously, you're joking right? A factory, bone stock 1989 951 does 0-60 in 5.5, the 1/4, which you love, in 14.2 and runs to 155. Which, IIRC, are the same performance numbers of the 1989 924S4! Yet, the 951 has 115 LESS horsepower.

The S4 is an auto, check a GT. By the way, check how Mark Anderson's 928 does against Cup cars. That V8 torque is a killer.

FYI, 400HP on a WRX STI or EVO IS lightly modded. That's what, a chip, a boost controller, and maybe an exhaust? Didn't even have to operate on the engine to replace a blower. Hell if you want to do that, you could throw on a hybrid turbo that'll spool quick and make large power.

Light;y modified? An Evo starts with an anemic 116 hp engine & adds 19 #s of boost. To get to 400, you need 35 lbs of boost. Keep your basket handy. And that stock turbo is good for double the stock boost. Now I'm impressed.

I don't intend to get into a pissing match over this with you, because for every 700HP V8 you find, I can find a 700HP import. Just like I mentioned earlier.

You just have to look quicker to see the 700 hp import, (while it's still together).

Although, regarding handling, I think you're just plain ****ing nuts if you think a Cobra will out handle an AWD WRX or STI.

Depends on your definition, Do I think a lightly modified 700 hp Cobra will lap faster than a (realistic) lightly modified 330 hp Evo, easily!

You push a lot of physics --trying hitting the physics equations yourself. Power to weight ratio, drag coefficents, frontal areas, hide heights, all play into how fast and how quick a vehicle is. If all that mattered was engine size, those F350 Turbo Diesel's would be eating everyones lunch and banging their wives, too.* Also, there's something called "tractable power." Logic would dictate that an AWD car would put power down more effectively and efficiently than would a RWD car, no?

Yes. Part of tractable power id a wide torque band another negative for the import. By the way, there's 400 #s difference in weight & 400 hp difference. Both have brembos (larger on the Cobra).

*Raz, the same guy with the 700+ HP blown Cobra, also has an F350 PowerStroke, lifted like 14 or 16 inches, that still runs high 13s in the 1/4. That's DAMNED fast for a truck that size. 5 miles per gallon? No thanks.

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 3559001)

Mule, before you retort, please READ. If you had paid attention to my prior list of cars, you'd notice that many of them are RWD or AWD. Not every Japanese car is a FWD *****box. Further, I think the fine folks at Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, etc would be insulted that you are comparing their supercars to a Mustang.

That wasn't me. That was you, saying that a boost controller & some brake pads or whatever, can have some 4cyl POS running with them.

Should you like to see FWD in action (I'm sure you don't), watch some of the SCCA professional racing. You'll see FWD mixing it up with RWD, and doing quite well.

Really, why dont you list the fwd LMP1, LMP2, GT1 & GT2 cars for me.

Related to the Cobra, I got that straight from a local BMW club member, who traded his E36 M3 for SC IRS Cobra. He was very happy with the straightline speed, but admitted that it would never handle as well as his M3. This was also the knock on the car from the magazines that reviewed it when new. A good effort, but not good enough to be a true road racer. Also, I would suggest you review the torque numbers that many turbo cars make. In many cases, they make more torque than HP. Not sure where your point is on that.

My point is simple, Money can change that too. I hate to break it to you but V8 RWD cars win lots of races,

If I were to purchase a new Evo for $30k and invest $20k into it, while you spent $50k on a used 996TT, that Evo would absolutely devour the 996TT. Absolutely no question. Hell, I bet it wouldn't even take that much in mods. I'd still rather have the 996TT, but I have to retort your ignorance.

And that Mustang only beat the WRX cause he missed a gear.

Originally Posted by gprsh924 (Post 3559030)

Mule a Lancer has 116 hp, but an the Evo IX was pushing out 276 and the X is somewhere just south of 300. Confusing a Lancer and an evo is like confusing a beetle and a 911.

Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 3558612)

Did he have spiked hair?

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 3559043)

Whatever Mule, you win. I won't waste my time debating someone who doesn't take the time to comprehend what I write. Crank the Foghat, and make sure you rev the Cherrybombs at every red light.

Originally Posted by slow&rusty (Post 3559015)

Interesting thread, and interesting read....

Matt's echoes my exact sentiment(s), so I will keep quiet!

But thought this picture speaks a thousand words...its Japanese and tell me if its rice...

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3...beforedzs7.jpg

Yes that is a Datsun 240Z.

Yasin

Originally Posted by Mule (Post 3559052)

Them fact are a b!tch, ain't they?:cool: