Guys, I need some serious parenting help!!!!!
 

My 7 year old is out of control with everyone but me. She has no respect for her mother, teachers, kids in class, almost everyone. She can be the most loving little girl when she wants to be, but seems to really enjoy getting a rise out of everyone else. I know she knows how to behave properly because she always does what I want her to do. She knows I mean business and will back it up with punishment if I need to. Unfortunately she also knows if I am not around there will be no immediate punishment. I am at my wit's end here. I have yet to find a punishment or reward that means enough to her to make her stop this behavior. I have tried no televison for a week, not toys, manual labor, spanking, damn near everything. None of this has had much effect. She has real control issues and wants to always be in charge. Someone suggested the "love and logic" approach. Anyone have it work.

Again, when she is with me she is great. Apparently she respects/is afraid of me enough to keep herself under control. We have lots of fun together with no problems. Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It just takes time. I have been through the same scenario twice. Just stay consistent and be patient.

Does mom say "Wait till your father ges home!" and you are the primary punisher? A child will push limits wherever possible, particularly with people they know will not respond negatively. Without a lot more info, sounds like a situation for group therapy. Limits set, consequences spelled out clearly. Without some kind of intervention now, the situation could become even worse in the future.

Sorry, I am not a child psychologist but I did raise mine and they turned out pretty OK. One daughter has a very gifted child who was that way. It took a LOT of work to "convince" this child that they wre not God's gift to the world nor a potential future World Dictator.

Taser and duct tape.

Kurt,

I can't help... I've been through this myself and never figured it out. But, you should think about removing one of the words in your description. Its a crazy world out there these days. I wouldn't want it to come back to you. Please understand, I am in no way disagreeing with your parenting techniques.

I understand what you are saying Motion. Fortunately corporal punishment is still allowed in Missouri. Not to mention I do legal work for the Juvi system here, so no worries about that! Unfortunately spanking does not have a lasting effect with her.

I suggest she runs for congress.

Waterboarding?

military school!

Have a 7 yr old daughter. She is generally very well behaved but will sneak around and do things that she knows she should not.

She absolutely torments her little brother and even when told to stop has trouble doing so.

I think it's a matter of learning self control and I believe it is a normal phase of development.

Frustrating as he11 but normal.

watch the dog whisperer.

most of it works on kids, and adults often enough.

How does she sleep?

I had a coworker who had a similar problem with a daughter that is the same age. Through months of doctor visits and psychologist visits, they determined that his daughter might not be sleeping well. They did a sleep test and discovered that the little girl was waking up about 7 times an hour and never getting to REM sleep. This was causing her to be tired and constantly act out. Further investigation showed that she had enlarged tonsils that were partially blocking her throat, causing her to wake up. She had her tonsils removed and the behavior stopped immediately.

Not saying this the cause, but something to at least look into.

Actually, she doesn't always do what you want her to do, otherwise you wouldn't be posting this!

It sounds like when you are physically near her, she complies. But when you are not, she doesn't do what she knows she is supposed to. That's the problem with trying to control kids primarily with fear and punishment.

IMO that's an indication that she fears you, but doesn't fully respect you.

My suggestion: What I found worked best for me as a child, and now as a parent, was being raised in a way that I would never want to disappoint my parents. My kids are the same way. They don't "do the right thing" out of fear of any punishment, but they would not want to disappoint us (just like we would not want to disappoint them).

They have also been raised, from Day 1, to appreciate the joys of achievement. And many candid discussions about what type of person they want to become, and how they are going to get there. They do not have any desire to be seen as an "acting out" type of kid.

I think you need to try to figure out the root cause of why she is acting out, and try to address that. Also, you seem to have been controlling her by fear and punishment. I'd rethink that. It may seem to work, on the surface, but as you have found, it doesn't really work on a deeper level. And IMO is likely causing, at least partially, the behavior you are trying to stop. But there are also, certainly, other underlying causes causing her behavior, you need to figure that out before you can effectively fix it.

Thanks legion. We did the sleep test and she has had her tonsils removed. She had no problems on the sleep test. I really think this is more of a respect issue.

Damn, I think you are exactly right. But how do I teach her in the ways you described? You seem to be very insightful on this. Any tips, suggestions or hell just write something down that I can use?

Have you tried rewarding the desired behavior? This tactic along with predetermined punishments for negative behavior has worked for us with our strong willed 7 year old.

Write it all down and make sure she understands ahead of time that if she CHOOSES (emphasis here) disrespectful behavior then she is choosing a loss of a privilege. The privilege needs to be something of very high importance to her. When she gets in trouble make sure she understands that at the moment she chose the negative behavior she also CHOSE to lose the privilege.

Likewise, make sure she understands that if she CHOOSES to be kind and respectful, then she's going to get some predetermined reward - movie? zoo? Whatever is meaningful to her.

We have used a calendar as a sticker chart for some time with our daughter. At the end of the day she gets a "super sticker" (extra large or sparkley) for super behavior, a "regular sticker" if we've had to reprimand her a few times, or no sticker if she was really getting on our nerves. At the end of the month she gets to choose a book, toy, etc. from a box if she has more super stickers than regular. Too many "no sticker" days and she gets nothing. Yeah, it's complicated, but so are 7 year old females!

the, is on to something here..this worked on me..
beatings I could handle then & now..
but the look of

so disappointed in you, ashamed to see & hear from friends & teachers how you behave..
remember him saying..while you have no class or standards..I do..
god I wanted a beating so bad..
Rika

Ditto, even the threat of this may work. Go online and print out a few pamphlets and give them to her. Worked on me when I was a punk kid.

When I was a kid, I did some things I should not have done. My Dad made a fist and stuck it under my nose. (It looked to me like a 20 pound ham!!). He very quietly said: You will do what you are told for one of two reasons. Because you love me or because you fear me. Your choice."

As I matured, my dad and I became the best of friends. I made my choice.

Drugs....;)

One question.. is she very physically active.. such as playing outside...games etc etc..?

One thing we have noticed is that our 6 year old boy can get really ratty and 'willful' if he isn't 'run' every day for a while.. a bit like a dog...
Once he has been out for a 'walk'... and he has had a good run and play outside he really is in a better mood and far 'happier'...much more agreeable and a joy to have around.

SO we get him out and about every day.. works wonders... we even have him repsonding to the whistle..:eek:

Kurt, you're a smart guy. I'm sure you will hit on what works best for you and your daughter eventually. Maybe you will think of it yourself, maybe it will be inspired by a Pelican or a friend. Until then, it will be frustrating and trying. I am confident that you will work this out, because above all, you care about your daughter and will not give up.

#1 The is onto the course of action - she need to experience the pain and dissapointment you have in her behavior.

#2 I recommend you spend some time these holidays with people that are less fortunate than you. Kids and adults tend to take things for granted. Sometimes you need to give them a reality check - It helps them appreciate what they have.

#3 You need to paint the road map of what will happen if her behavior continues - progressive discipline - first comes reduction of benefits (TV, video games, toys) then comes taking away things - toys, stuffed animals, freedom.

Behavior is always the most difficult to change - but I can warn you of this - if you don't get control of her at 7 - you damn sure won't have control of her at 15...

A lack of respect of authority manifests itself into other issues, there has to be consequences to actions.

When my sons Chris and Alex were little, I had them convinced childhood was a screening process. As their parent, it was my responsibility to determine if they were suitable for release into society. No one would miss them if I decided they weren't. I used to tell them what Bill Cosby always said; "I can make another one just like you".

The trick would be not to make another "just like you" but to make one "better behaved"!!

I don't know if there's much that you can do.

Sounds more like her mother and teachers are enablers and should be posting here asking for help.

This will definitely be a team effort...the advice on this thread has been great. Not much to add other than ensuring there are no differences in how you and your wife approach this problem.

You'll work it out:)

I've found with my three year old that working on issues like respect and trust and expectations are most effective when he's behaving very well, not when he's behaving poorly. I am actually shocked at how effective I have been with him using this method. I was disciplined physically growing up and have yet to spank my kids. Not that I don't see a place for it (safety concerns where you may want to shock an impression on them, i.e. hot stove), I just haven't had to.

Use the time she is behaving well to input short burst style lessons. Talk to her in an adult way while doing this but don't do it like a "friend"...then reminders when she's behaving badly will be effective. I hope that made sense. Good luck

Thanks for all the advice guys, I am going to try and distill it down for some simple rules for me and the wife. Right now I think she has just too many distractions: tv, toys, just crap laying around. What I am thinking of doing is sitting her down to discuss the respect issues, laying out the guidlines and the to reinforce actually boxing up all her toys. As she starts to show respect she can then choose what toy to play with or a period she can watch tv. She becomes disrespectful, back go the toys. My wife and I also need to change our behavior. This is going to be work no doubt.

Kurt, your not alone. In fact I was considering posting on OT about our daughter to see what the more experienced parents had to say. Our 4 year old is going through quite a phase right now.

I have come to see that its just as much my problem as the childs. The kid is trying to assert her independance, and getting a rise out of everyone is her technique. Her behavior is pretty much a reflection of how we react.

I've had the best results by A) Clearly stating the behavior that you want stopped B) Give a warning, and remind her that the next step is punishment C) Punishment. Back it up.

Spanking doesn't really seem to do to much good.

Little girls are very complex. My 11 yr son is an open book where my 8 yr daughter is a 4000 page novel written in Latin using some Native American encryption technique. From my own experience the Mother/Daughter relationship is way more trying than the Father/Daughter one. Dad's somehow get a pass on most of the daily "issues" where Mom gets the lions share.

The only advice I can offer, as I'm sort of in the same boat, is to show continued patience but remain firm on punishing unwanted behavior and rewarding the desired. That and constant support of Mom to be the "adult" and think long term vs the daily win/loss column.

+1. It's a tool best used once or twice. The more effective punishment is to deprive a child of his/her "currency". For my son it's the baseball gear and playstation. For my daughter it's clothes and friends.

My daughter has been especially tough on several occasions and called our bluff forcing us to remove items from her closet. She stood there rolling her eyes and saying "I don't care...take all of it". So we did. She now knows not to call our bluff anymore.

I feel I need to provide a semi-helpful answer, so here it goes.
My 7 year old son can also be a bit like this. People have commented that they see a difference in his behavior depending upon whether he is with me or his mother. He is generally fine when he’s with me, but every child has their moments. Usually it is friction between him and his older brother that sparks things off and it goes down hill rapidly from there.
I have noticed a few differences between the way that she and I behave, maybe you can relate to these…
1. He knows that if he misbehaves around me that it will not go unpunished. This really doesn’t need much more than pulling him to the side and giving him a severe talking to. I don’t mean shouting, but staring straight at him and telling him in a firm voice how it’s going to be. Of course he will be wriggling around and trying to get away, but I will just hold him and keep him there until I get his attention (he gets tired of that pretty quickly). I hardly ever have to do this, but both of them know it could happen.
She appears to just leave him to it, so he probably feels as though gets away anything. This leads on to the second point in some ways…
2. I can generally engage both him and his brother in what were doing. If either of them does start to get out of hand they need to be pulled back in line pretty quickly before it escalates. Basically, I feel as though I’m paying attention to them and I think they know it. I don’t know how much attention she gives them, but my feeling is that she will let them get on with their thing while she gets on with hers. It makes me wonder if misbehaving is a way of getting some attention, or at least a way for them to tell how closely they’re being watched.
3. In line with what legion said – sleep. There is definitely a relationship between bad behavior and lack of sleep, particularly with the young one. I think he’s often in bed quite late and up very early at his mother’s, but that is really speculation on my behalf and based on what the boys say. But if they’re with me on a school night or if we have an early start planned on a weekend then I will make sure they know what time they are going to be in bed well in advance of bed time
4. I ask for their respect and try not to let simple things like “Please” and “Thank you” slip. For example, if they ask me for a drink I will make them ask again if I don’t get a “Please”. I’m happy to pour it for them then hand them the glass. I don’t let go of the glass until I hear a “Thank you”. They do forget every now and then, but a second looking at you while holding onto a glass that you won’t let them have and they remember. I don’t want to sound like I’m being an arse about it, but it sets a standard and they know what’s expected. I get the impression that they almost run the house when they’re with their mother.
5. I guess that something else that might be important here is to make sure they know my expectations. For example, I tell them to ask me if they are going to play outside and, if they are going out to play in the street, they are not to go out of sight of the house and they must be in before it gets dark, that sort of thing.
6. Every now and again I will give them an opportunity to blow off steam and run wild. That usually means a walk down to the park where they can be maniacs for 45 minutes without bothering anyone. They have a lot of energy that they need to get rid of and as long as they understand that when we leave the park it’s back to normal then I don’t mind.

I'm no expert (who is?) but hope this comes across right. I don’t want to sound like we’re the VonTrapp family or anything, but I think children need rules, limits, and expected standards of behavior made clear to them. It may take some concentrated effort and you and her mother are probably going to feel as though you’re being a bit mean to start with. But once you get the standard established it gets much easier. You also need to let them know that they have your attention and show an interest in what they’re doing. The more you do this the more they will listen to you.

Someone mentioned distractions. Only recently has my stepdaughter and her hubby begun to make sure the TV is off during mealtime. (a good start). My 12 YO granddaughter has so many electronic devices (cyberpets, MP3, etc) that when she and I had a talk about distractions she denied they were a problem until I asked her what she was doing five minutes earlier. She could not remember. Attention span of a few minutes is not conducive to rational behavior.

Eliminate some of the distractions. My grandson is very involved in BMX and he has purpose and direction at 7. Two nights a week he races. Since he got involved in BMX, deportment has improved and schoolwork has also.

1) Exercise
2) Discipline
3) Affection

...and above all.........CONSISTENCY. You and the others need to be on the same page with respect to the ways things are done. Very tought to do, but it is a must.

If you are the dictator and the rest are not.....

It sounds like some other people are having more trouble than you, with this little girl. Perhaps it is they who should consider making improvements in their parenting techniques. My ex-wife tried hard to be her daughters' best friend. Bought them things. Was lenient. It didn't work. She needed to be the Mom, not the Friend. Everybody needs to assume their roles. If they do, then the little girl will too.

Why not do what everyone else does? Put her on Ritalin. Problem solved. Unfortunately, I'm not kidding.

Does she do well in school? Attention span ok? Behavior? If not, get her evaluated. If she is not ADD, some firm parenting is in order. If she is, you'll have to come to grips with making a decision to treat her. And if you chose to treat her, and do it right, you'll be amazed by the results. They say Ritalin (or other similar drugs) won't help if they're not needed. I don't know if I believe that, but I've seen other kids where it made a profound difference. D's become A's, etc.

I am not convinced re: drugs. They are too often touted as the solution. Make absolutely certain they are necessary before going this route. I have seen a few kids literally turned into zombies.

Just my feelings. Not an "expert".

Kurt, I've got a similar problem brewing at my house. My girl is only 4 but the potential is there. I, like you have my childs attention and respect. She and I hardly ever have any conflict. My wife is the one who catches all the misbehavior.
Hopefully the wife won't read this, but I believe that if she were to follow through on the punishment that is threatened then the behavior may change. Unfortunately since day one my wife has not been firm and the girl runs over her.
Solutions to the problem are still being configured. (Meaning I don't have clue what to do)

I think Seahawk brought up an excellent point.
Both parents being on the same page as far as dicipline, rewards, etc.
My wife and I have just one kid. She just turned nine. I feel really lucky after reading some of the other posts.
Good luck Kurt. I think you will get things under control.

And my almost 7 year old daughter is in http://www.jungyae.com/Home.html

Absolutely NO **** is tolerated, no screwing around.......it's all about DSICIPLINE.
Sink or swim, baby.

Here she is:

Checking hands for marker slop, clean hands:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1196445772.jpg

Time to rock:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1196445807.jpg