Last year there were 27,000 kids under the age of 18 killed by handguns in the USA.

26,989 were armed and committing a violent crime when they were shot by their potential victims.

Guns keep the peace.

Can't help but think that if the San Diego kid Parents didn't have guns 2 more kids would be alive today. That's a microcosmic and subjective view irrespective of Culture between different Nations but I think it is TRUE. I don't think he would of thrown a petrol bomb, or hit with a hammer, or cut them up with a chainsaw (an earlier post said guns were tools, like hammers, or chainsaws). Guns are easy, takes a second. I know that most US people on this BBS seem to want the right to own a gun and freedom to say "MY GUNS KEEP YOU FREE. EVERYONE SHOULD OWN AS MANY GUNS AND AS MUCH AMMO AS THEY CAN GET" (to quote another post). And that's such a contrast to my culture, but living in the UK - and the US in the past - I can see both sides and how far the US has gone into guns being necessary part of self protection. But where is it going to end? For all of us? I suspect - and with no statistics to hand I must say and if someone has some, post it! - that there's more shootings in the US pro rata to, say, the UK, or France, etc. If that is true, is that because of the ease of getting a gun in the US? Buying one, or getting a parents gun, etc. Would people who are pro gun ownership give up their guns for a gun free society? Or would there be a nagging doubt of "what if I still need it?" prevail - that is something no normal person would think in the UK, people don't need guns unless they're in some criminal occupation, or farmers, or have mental health problems (e.g the man who shot the kids in the Dunblane shootings). Would the US pro guns people on this board prefer that type of society?
NB. No anti-US feelings from me, I really like the US and spend a lot of my time here and it's a wonderful country. The thing I don't like is the amount of violent crime and shootings, that the Police have to carry guns. I'd rather it were like the UK. Where people use hammers and chainsaws hehe....

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'75 911S Targa
http://member.aol.com/asaffery/my911s.html

You who live in the EU live under SOCIALISIUM not FREEDOM PEOPLE WHO FOUNDED THIS NATION CAME HERE TO BE FREE. NOT REPRESSED LIKE YOU ALL OVER THERE IN EUROPE. BTW the members of the NRA sent TWO millon Guns for free to ENGLAND so that the Home Guard didn't have to Fight the NAZI"s WITH STICKS and Pitch Forks. BTW England dis armed the Scots in 1756, And that is exactly why OUR FOUNDING FATHERS GAVE THE PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.ATTN IN this country THE GOVERMENT ANSWERS TO THE PEOPLE NOT THE PEOPLE TO THE GOVEREMENT. STEVE STROMBERG MEMBER OF SONS OF THE REPUBLIC,LEAUGE OF THE SOUTH, CITZEN OF THE REPUBLIC OF CALIFORNIA. FORMER U.S. NAVY SEAL, GOD BLESS THE REPUBLIC

Both sides of this debate seem to have good points but saffs does seem to have reasonings I can relate to,
as for Viprklr, maybe i read it wrong or maybe you just made a statement that could be used in the arguement for Gun Control!. I mean 27,000 kids under the age of 18!!!dieing at the hands of guns!
Although I despise the agreesiveness of the British youth, it is probabley rare that they manage to knife/petrol bomb or chain saw anywhere near that percentage of victims!.

I have concidered getting a gun in the past as a form of self protection!. I was amazed as a foreigner I could walk into a Florida gun shop and purchase a gun!.
My wife stopped me, pointing out the fact that I DO SLEEPWALK!!!.


[This message has been edited by 86ragtop (edited 03-06-2001).]

GUNS: 50cal Barret,358win mag,.44 mag,12 guage pump,7mm mag,357 mag, Any of these will do nicely.PS DONT BUY A SMITH AND WESSON F*CK THEM.Steve

86ragtop - it is not unusual for liberals such as yourself to take a statistic and turn it around. I made a point AGAINST gun control, not for it. I will post my information again here - for you to re-read -slowly. You might want your mum on hand to explain this:

Last year there were 27,000 kids under the age of 18 killed by handguns in the USA.
26,989 were armed and committing a violent crime when they were shot by their potential victims.

Guns keep the peace

If the kids had attacked non-armed persons, then there would be 26,989 innocent citizens hurt, raped or killed and 26,898 young criminal left free to do it again. If you think that is better, then God have Mercy on your families lives.

I am glad there are those that voice opposition to guns! The criminals will target you LONG before they consider me. I would never consider not having a gun. My life and my family’s lives are too important to hope against hope that the thugs will have mercy on my beautiful wife. LOL - I am far too well trained for that to happen, and I am thankful for the option of preventing (or stopping) someone from hurting us, or our freedom.

It may be true that the americans sent munitions and arms to aid the Allies in WW2 but americans are still sending arms to the IRA in the name of independance?.
Firearms used in anger/aggression/bravado are just a sad waste of lives!.
Hunting/marksmanship have valid skills and can be a worthwhile hobby!.

Life is precious and a deadly weapon can take many forms including guns, Porsche's, DUI truck drivers.

Guns are to KILL with period.Ragtop Think about your IRA statement,THE KING WOULD NOT ALLOW THE IRISH ONE FISH FROM THE SEA AS ALL THE FISH ARE KINGS PROPERTY.THATS B.S.THE BRITSH LOST TO THE IRISH BACK IN 1917 IT'S TIME TO LEAVE and its TIME TO GET YOUR ARSE's BACK TO ENGLAND.LEAVE IRELAND NOW!!!!Steve

I cannot be my brothers keeper.
Period.


Statistics can say whatever you want them to say.

Period.




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Leland Pate

___79 SC Targa

I cannot be my brothers keeper.
Period.


Statistics can say whatever you want them to say.

Period.




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Leland Pate

___79 SC Targa

Steve,
I have British Citizenship but have not lived there for over 16yrs.
I am not and never been proud of what the British do or have done, I am not patriotic for a country that I do not concider my Home!.
Stick and stones!
However I do find it comical how patiotic US Citizens are programmed to be!!!

What a lot of offensive nonsense...

Well If your family came here in 1687 you would be PATRIOTIC TOO. Remember OUR FIRST FLAG WAS....DONT TREAD ON ME.... And that sums up WHAT REAL AMERICANS STAND FOR. I DO NOT CARE WHAT COLOR YOU ARE OR WHERE YOU ARE FROM BUT IF YOU DONT LIKE MY COUNTRY, GO BACK TO YOUR HOMELAND, BUT DO NOT TRY TO MAKE MY COUNTRY LIKE YOUR HOMELAND, RULED BY TYRANTS.FOR WE WILL NOT STAND FOR IT. STEVE

OOOOps think I upset someone! http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

Sorry Steve, will leave 'your' country right away!
NOT!

No Hard feelings, I dont even know you,but my feeling are shared by far more Americans than the Control Press Would have you think.GOD BLESS THE REPUBLIC.
Steve

It is difficult for those outside the U.S. to understand our position about firearms. Believe me, I grew up with guns and now own a few. We use them for sport, hunting, "plinking" steel cans and limited (but very real) self-defence.
The gun and violence problem in the drug trade or the inner city does not affect most of us, and we are not willing to give up our freedoms because of failings of social policy.
Nor do the guns of movies, TV, and rap vidios have much to do with us.
If we re-read the beginnings of this post, it was simply a question about guns and target shooting, we should have left it at that. I think I got it all heading downhill with my crack on George III. I'm going back to Porsches.

Vprklr
regarding your post, what i was referring to was that somewhere in those figures it indicates that there was some 50,000 people running around with guns and an intent to use them! In fact that figure was indicating only the ones that got shot! Imagine how many other people were using guns in violent crimes that did not get a chance to use them!.
Two people in a 'mexican standoff' usually ends up with one or both shot and/or dead.
The sheer volume of guns makes people feel that they NEED one BECAUSE everyone else has one especially the criminals!.

You guys are taking me wrong, I do not want to change 'Your' country. I accept it as I find it as with the people.
I am just transiant here and making an observation, forming an opinion based on having lived in more countries than most on this site!.
Remember,
'Opinions are like A*seholes, Everybodys got one!'
Can we please talk about Porsches now http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

Well, I have a smith & wesson model 686 stainless steel 357 magnum with a 6" barrell. Very acurate. I may need it considering a new law that goes into effect in July here in Michigan. Any freaking idiot who can sign his name and pass a "gun safty" course will be able to obtain a concealed weapons permit. What were those politicians thinking?

Huey581
86' 911 cab

Somehow it all looks like the arms race of the cold war.... I so much rather worry about other things......

Jean-Paul

Well I certainly set off a thing or two here... It seems that people get scared if they feel like somebody else is trying to take away things that they treasure.

Imagine if Porsches were to be outlawed because of their dangerous speed potential!!!