Dec 7, 1941

[tcar]

My father in law was in the Pacific. New Mexico National Guard - Cavalry; had to eat their horses.

Thinks he was on the last truck before the Bataan Death March. No other trucks came into camp after his, just walking dead.

Spent the rest of the war trying to stay alive, eating thimblefulls of rice, bugs, maggots. Had nails pounded into his eardrums.

He died when he was 56, doctor said that physically he was 80, from the ravages of prison camp.

Still wanted to visit Japan someday, but died before he could. Said that the Japanese soldiers didn't eat much better than the prisoners did.

[Hawktel]

My great uncle Harry was on the Bataan death march. He was a bigger guy, 6'3. 240 pounds when fit. When rescued he weighed 108 pounds. And he got the good treatment, because he was good with machinery and fixed the Japaneses things that broke, like radios and stuff.

If you went to his house you got fed. No if, ands, or buts. When he died he had over 2000 cans of canned goods in his basement Just cases and cases of stuff. I use to drop by and thanksgivings, and he's always ask if you wanted more bird. About a dozen times.

[The Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Martin Smith

トラ、トラ、トラ!

If you're gonna do it...do it right.

虎,虎,虎

Indeed!

Tiger, Tiger, Tiger.

TORA! TORA! TORA!

I have spent a lot of time in Japan and not all of it in school or offices.. They are tough bastards. I was glad I was not trying to fight them..

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Mule

Great post sonic. Life would be so much better if we'd have just submitted, right? The we wouldn't have nitwits walking around with guilt complexes. My guess is charleskieffner's dad would have slapped you for this kind of commentery. By the way, if "the greatest generation" were graded on political correctness, they wouldn't grade out too high. Maybe there's a point there!

Also, Truman didn't bomb them, America did!

Weird. You just love to fight don't you?

We did bomb the poo out of them. That's a fact. It's what atomic bombs do.

"they lived in extreme poverty and horrible conditions," I suspect that's probably a fact too.

I suspect Sonic was just making a declarative statement. I don't remember reading anything in his post condemning the US for our actions.

clairvoyant?

[pwd72s]

The phrase used by my parents was a simple one: "Remember Pearl Harbor"

No other rhetoric, political or otherwise, was needed.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by masraum

Weird. You just love to fight don't you?

We did bomb the poo out of them. That's a fact. It's what atomic bombs do.

"they lived in extreme poverty and horrible conditions," I suspect that's probably a fact too.

I suspect Sonic was just making a declarative statement. I don't remember reading anything in his post condemning the US for our actions.

clairvoyant?

And the fact that his post came on the heels of comments about remembering our dead from Pearl Harbor was just co-incidental.

[Noah930]

Take it for how you will, Mule. But I interpreted it as a demonstration that regardless of what side of the battle you're on on any particular day, in the end everyone loses.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by jshape

"The last thing I saw that was made by Mitsubishi I shot out of the air."

Now he drives a Lexus. Things change.....

That got a chuckle out of me. It's good to live in a world where we can forgive. Maybe not forget. But at least forgive.

[Dottore]

Since we're telling war stories - my dad was drafted into the Wehrmacht as a kid and sent to fight in North Africa under Rommel. At night the Yanks and the Brits and the Germans would sneak into each others camps and drink and sing Lili Marlene together. Then before dawn they'd sneak back to their lines and then spend the day shooting at each other. Bizarre - but this went on for a long time and underscores the real absurdity of these conflicts.

He was eventually captured by one of Monty's units - who treated the Germans like ****. Starved them, burned them with cigarette butts etc. The Brits then turned them over to the Yanks - who shipped them all to a POW camp in Clinton Mississippi where the Germans were treated extremely well for the next four years. They had movies and beer - and were even allowed to use the public swimming pool. My father started a little theater troupe, and they were regularly given weekend passes and a truck and performed in small towns all over Mississippi. Hard to believe - but true.

For my father, who claims these were the "best years of his life", this was the beginning of a life-long love affair with America. At the first opportunity - in the 1960's - he brought the family over to the USA, lived the American dream and built a very successful life for himself and his family.

His favourite phrases are "American largesse" and "generosity of spirit" - and he still rolls these out all the time when talking about the US of A.

So hats off and respect.

[cairns]

But I interpreted it as a demonstration that regardless of what side of the battle you're on on any particular day, in the end everyone loses.

I didn't. It's the Pearl Harbor anniversary. Not Hirsoshima.

And you might note that not everyone lost. The United States and her allies won. And because of that, in the long term, Germany and Japan did too.

[skipdup]

Dottore- I remember reading that the POW camps state-side were designed to win the hearts and minds of those captured. Very interesting to hear first-hand (sort of) of the experience. Thanks for that.

- Skip

[skipdup]

Originally Posted by cairns

I didn't. It's the Pearl Harbor anniversary. Not Hirsoshima.

+1

[Gene Wilkes]

Dad joined the Navy after the Japanese bombed Pearl. Went into the submarine corp and was sitting on deck in the Pacific when they saw a bright flash. They figured it was some kind of test. Turned out to be the flash from Hiroshima. http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08340.htm

War bootie!

[kstar]

Originally Posted by cairns

I didn't. It's the Pearl Harbor anniversary. Not Hirsoshima.

And you might note that not everyone lost. The United States and her allies won. And because of that, in the long term, Germany and Japan did too.

Well said.

Best,

Kurt

[Noah930]

Don't quite understand the point of your post, cairns. Like I said, interpret stuff for how you'd like. I gave my impression (of sonic's post), just as Mule did, earlier. Are you offended by that pic of Hiroshima on this thread?

And your second paragraph seems to suggest that the world is a better place for having been through war. Your definition of "won" and "lost" is a bit simplistic, no?

[Craig 930 RS]

The hatred for the Germans - and to a larger extent, the Japanese - comes from an understandable and rather objective reason.

The treatment. The Bushido code extended to a point where the opposite was inflicted on the enemy. Horrid treatment. Resulting in absolute hate for anything Japanese.





The Samurai Bushido Code (Japanese "way of the warrior", or bushido), was the warrior code of the samurai.
Samurai Warrior Code was a strict code that demanded:


loyalty
devotion
and honor to the death
---------
The Japanese had charge of over 70,000 prisoners of war, or POWs, which was quite a bit more than the 30,000 that the Japanese had planned for. This unexpected challenge caused the captors to become inhumane and brutal. Captives everywhere were bayoneted, shot, or slaughtered with samurai swords.

For entertainment during the march, the guards would push their prisoners off cliffs.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Pearl Harbor Day used to be how I remembered a friend's birthday. In the last 6 years, for me, it recalls the post-Depression re-birth of a great nation, and shines a spotlight on our current failures as a country.

[surflvr911sc]

Remembrance

It has nothing to do with your political thoughts about the years following that day, or in the conflicts since. There are 364 other days for that.

Lives were changed that day, the future of Nations changed, the world changed; it’s about remembrance. There have been other days worth remembering, but today is Pearl Harbor Day.

Godspeed.

[Rearden]

Originally Posted by Noah930

And your second paragraph seems to suggest that the world is a better place for having been through war. Your definition of "won" and "lost" is a bit simplistic, no?

Yes, the world is a better place without Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. "Peace" (submitting) wouldn't have done much good in the effort to rid the planet of those filthy regimes.

Cheers to the Greatest Generation.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Since we're telling war stories - my dad was drafted into the Wehrmacht as a kid and sent to fight in North Africa under Rommel. At night the Yanks and the Brits and the Germans would sneak into each others camps and drink and sing Lili Marlene together. Then before dawn they'd sneak back to their lines and then spend the day shooting at each other. Bizarre - but this went on for a long time and underscores the real absurdity of these conflicts.

He was eventually captured by one of Monty's units - who treated the Germans like ****. Starved them, burned them with cigarette butts etc. The Brits then turned them over to the Yanks - who shipped them all to a POW camp in Clinton Mississippi where the Germans were treated extremely well for the next four years. They had movies and beer - and were even allowed to use the public swimming pool. My father started a little theater troupe, and they were regularly given weekend passes and a truck and performed in small towns all over Mississippi. Hard to believe - but true.

For my father, who claims these were the "best years of his life", this was the beginning of a life-long love affair with America. At the first opportunity - in the 1960's - he brought the family over to the USA, lived the American dream and built a very successful life for himself and his family.

His favourite phrases are "American largesse" and "generosity of spirit" - and he still rolls these out all the time when talking about the US of A.

So hats off and respect.

Sounds like a true success story, other than the fact that his son grew up a communist.