Renault Guilty of Spying?

legion · 11-27-2007, 07:53 AM

Who wants to bet that Renault's punishment is much less severe than McLaren's?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071123/ap_on_sp_au_ra_ne/car_f1_spy_scandal

Quote:

Renault has been summoned to a Dec. 6 hearing of the World Motor Sport Council in Monaco on charges of having "unauthorized possession of documents and confidential information" of McLaren cars between September 2006 and October 2007.

British newspapers on Friday quoted a memo leaked by McLaren's lawyers suggesting that Renault's activities were more serious than those that resulted in McLaren being fined a record $100 million for possessing Ferrari documents.

Aerkuld · Aerkuld's Garage

Yup. Count me in.

Jims5543 · 11-27-2007, 08:14 AM

+1

I heard something about this but I have to see what exactly their involvement is.

Was Stephney sending info to Renault as well?

Joeaksa · 11-27-2007, 08:16 AM

Scuttlebutt is that its a stronger case than in the McLaren situation.

Since its not McLaren, they will be fined $2-3 million and a slap on the hands. Flav will have to pork Bernie's daughter a couple of times then all will be ok...

Aerkuld · Aerkuld's Garage

Interestingly the name Phil Mackereth rings a bell. I have a funny feeling that I used to work with the guy.

motion · 11-27-2007, 08:42 AM

I read an article that implied that The Flav has already told Bernie that any steep fine will result in his exit from F1. Now, of course, they're not going to let that happen. Also, this spying stuff has been going on forever in the sport. Nothing new.

frogger · 11-27-2007, 08:44 AM

Besides, there was no foul to Ferrari this time.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

It'd be funny if Ferrari got caught spying on Renault next.

legion · 11-27-2007, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motion

I read an article that implied that The Flav has already told Bernie that any steep fine will result in his exit from F1.

Funny, wasn't the deal with McLaren that Ron Dennis walks or the $100 million fine? No double standard here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by motion

Also, this spying stuff has been going on forever in the sport. Nothing new.

Weren't you one of the more vocal critics of McLaren when it (may have) hurt Ferrari? Now when it hurts McLaren, qué será, será?

Jeff Higgins · 11-27-2007, 10:09 AM

A precedent has been set with the enormous fined levied against McLaren. I would love to see the same fine levied against Renault, causing them to leave F1. Maybe some other teams would follow. I could see that as the beginning of the end of Bernie and his little empire. The sooner the current F1 infrastructure collapses under its own weight the better. Anything that hastens that end is a good thing.

David · David's Garage

I can't imagine Renault getting anywhere near as large a fine. I also can't imagine the lawyers at McLaren not waiting patiently for this to happen so they can take F1 to court and have their fine lowered to match. I'm still an F1 fan, but they're sure making NASCAR look less stupid

.

Jims5543 · 11-27-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

A precedent has been set with the enormous fined levied against McLaren. I would love to see the same fine levied against Renault, causing them to leave F1. Maybe some other teams would follow. I could see that as the beginning of the end of Bernie and his little empire. The sooner the current F1 infrastructure collapses under its own weight the better. Anything that hastens that end is a good thing.

If I remember correctly, the fine against McLaren was so huge in order to get their attention. A 10 Million fine would have been paid with a chuckle.

I would imagine with Renault a fine more in ratio with their budget will be levied.

100 million was not a precedent, it was in line with what the team could afford.

frogger · 11-27-2007, 11:06 AM

Renault is a big company. Let them pay. It's silly to make the punishment different for the same crime. Sporting fairness and all that Max Mosely tripe. Oh yeah, Renault F1's transgression appears a lot worse than that of Mclaren, IMO.

Seric · 11-27-2007, 11:35 AM

Renault who? :O

livi · 11-27-2007, 11:44 AM

The French know the spy business. Remember that wonderful TV series comedy about the French Resistance during the war.

Aerkuld · Aerkuld's Garage

Maybe the fine should be that Renault should provide transport for the entire FIA in 2008. That way everyone comes out worse.

sammyg2 · 11-27-2007, 12:58 PM

Ummmm, IMO if a first or second place team is cheating, it affects the outcome and deserves a stiffer penalty.

If a last place team is caught cheating, is it as big of a deal?
Renault was not a major player, they were not in the championship chase, they should be punished but the fine should not be as great. Then again, I'm surprised that Renault hasn't surrendered yet

BTW, I thought ther $100 mil MacLaren fine was ridiculous.
They should have fined them $50 each and kicked them ALL out of the sport for one year.

Joeaksa · 11-27-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Ummmm, IMO if a first or second place team is cheating, it affects the outcome and deserves a stiffer penalty.

If a last place team is caught cheating, is it as big of a deal?
Renault was not a major player, they were not in the championship chase, they should be punished but the fine should not be as great. Then again, I'm surprised that Renault hasn't surrendered yet

BTW, I thought ther $100 mil MacLaren fine was ridiculous.
They should have fined them $50 each and kicked them ALL out of the sport for one year.

Part of the problem is that the drivers were not fined at all, and the team fined for everything. Now, the two drivers and one engineer did most if not all of the work on this little affair, and the third driver had nothing that has been proven to do with it.

One driver has been pushed out (thank God) and the second driver (de la Rosa) needs to go work for someone else, and who knows what has happened to the engineer.

This was a witch hunt against Ron Dennis and McLaren, and Max Mosley should have just come out and said so. Then Alonzo played his hand saying that if Hamilton was let go that he would not tell the FIA and got his wee wee spanked while doing so.

There is a thing called Karma and sometime Max Mosley will get his photo taken with a sheep or young boy and will get his due. As for Bernie... well some of us just hope that its hot down below so he can get his excercise. I know several people who have worked for Bernie and given the choice would take being a Wal-Mart greeter over having any contact with him in any capacity.

boba · 11-27-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

The sooner the current F1 infrastructure collapses under its own weight the better. Anything that hastens that end is a good thing.

+1

MFAFF · 11-28-2007, 04:57 AM

It will be interesting for sure..

Just to recap however a few issues as they are known..

It would appear that a large amount of proprietory McLaren information covering the design of the 2006 and 2007 cars was installed on the Renault computer system during September 2006.
The source of this information would appear to be an newly hired employee who had been hired by Renault at the time, leaving his previous employer Mclaren immediateyl before beginning work at McLaren.

So logically the information was taken from one to the other.
It would also appear that Renault have, since this aspect came to light, deleted all the information from their systems and returned it to Mclaren.

In the meantime Renault has not contested the issue that a large number of individuals in their team have had access to this information since its first appearance on the system.

It will be therefore interesting what 'spin' is placed on this by the proceedings.. as the championship is complete and to change it on this basis would risk the loss of a major player... afterall Renault, for all the percieved lack of performance have a pedigree in F1, of the other teams Ferrari and McLaren are the only ones who can exceed it.. remember they won a few championships with Williams as well, so to call them a bit player is incorrect.

Regardless of what the McLaren fine was it did set a benchmark.. get caught with somebody else's information and you are fined. The wealth of the team is irrelevant, the 'value' of the object is the issue. In that regard the information the Renault team had was far greater than the information the McLaren team had.. it covered two race years and was avaliable whilst the car was still being designed and prior to being homologated by the FIA.. hence the research and experience that McLaren had and the choices it had made in terms of adapting the new car to the new tyres could have been added to whatever knowledge and choices Renault had... copying is not the issue here, its having a greater range of information and options that leads to the additional edge.

However my guess is that there will be a major 'difference' in the assessment of the value of the information or how it came to be in the hands of Renault. F1does not want to lose Renault, they knew that McLaren was not going to walk, nor was Ron going to leave.. but they knew they would pay to stay. Renault.. more money to do other things.. like a return to rallying, now that the opposition is lesser it makes sense.

So the fine will be less or non existant and the whole McLaren/ Ferrari circus wil start again...this time who knows what will crawl out of the wood work.