I'm tired of poor quality stuff made overseas failing on me all the time...

[dd74]

Six pages of, I assume, complaints about sub-standard Chinese manufacturing? (writer shrugs)

You get what you pay for.

If you want items not made in China, Taiwan, India or any place like that, just look around. The merchandise is out there. Sure, it'll cost you, but that shouldn't be of any concern. Why? Because principles are priceless.

[jluetjen]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

...and we inflate the value of the dollar so much that our IOUs become worthless (a likely scenario).

"Inflate"???? While the economic term is "inflation", what actually happens is the value of the dollar is decreased.

[frogger]

Originally Posted by jluetjen

"Inflate"???? While the economic term is "inflation", what actually happens is the value of the dollar is decreased.

Not to worry. I'm sure most of us understood what Wayne meant to say, and he certainly has the power to correct a simple mistake.

[The Gaijin]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

I used to think that China will soon be faced with the burden of maintaining a middle class, but it likely won't happen. They have wave after wave/an endless supply of peasants to pull from. If the current crop gets uppity they'll just replace them with the next crop. The US and other developed countries did not have this "luxury" hence the formation of a middle class. The demands of our masses had to be met as we would have literally ran out of labor, this will not happen there(for several lifetimes anyway).

I am not so sure.. This one-child-per-family policy has been in place for more than a generation - and another thing, as they become more urbanized, they are used to having only one kid. It is the accepted norm. Also, as boys are favored - many girls are aborted. No only a low birth rate - but skewered as well...

India has the people coming off the farms.. As mechanization increases (not much more than garden tractors and water pumps..), millions and millions and millions are underemployed and looking for work..

[nostatic]

China is shooting for 70% urban, 30% agrarian. India will indeed be the next cheap labor pool, but they might want to keep them to themselves as they could give China a run for their money in 20-30 years. We'll still be pissing and moaning about crap...

Globalization isn't a "farce", it is a reality. We don't hold a patent on economic development.

[Rearden]

Originally Posted by nostatic

We don't hold a patent on economic development.

Even if we did, the Chinese would rip it off

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Rearden

Even if we did, the Chinese would rip it off

+1
And it still must be known that this country still holds the brain trust in innovation. We are much more inventive than other parts of the world, the Far East countries included. We invent things. China et al (attempt) to build what we invent into acceptable facsimiles.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by tabs

...Do U have ADD or sumthin...

Look at the time, this thread is about to close! As usual, it starts with something simple -

I hate my Chinese made stereo.

then...

This is a racist thread!

then....

Tabs, the purveyor of carpet and insults closes it out with, yes, more insults.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Yes, I should have cited Warren Buffet in my earlier rant (that article is awesome, BTW). The guy is a total straight shooter.

[ruf-porsche]

It kinda strange to hear all this b-itching about buying from China when everyone on this forum has a car that is not MADE IN THE U.S.A.

If we should bolcott chinese products we should also bolcott german products.

I try to buy OEM parts for my PORSCHE, but the last time I brought an OEM part with a box from PORSCHE, the part was made in China. Maybe Porsche is only printing boxes for parts that are made in CHINA.

For people railing on illegal MEXICAN why don't you rail on all those AMERICAN people that are adopting Chinese children? What's wrong with adopting an orphan from this country? Why do you have to travel halfway around the world to adopt a child?

Happy New Year

[911pcars]

"Why do you have to travel halfway around the world to adopt a child?"

Same reason - cost and/or the hassle, length of time required for adoption procedures in the US. Chinese girls are plentiful (see aforementioned posts), thus the sale prices. The same applies to other countries as well but not w/o controversey about the practice.

Sherwood

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by ruf-porsche

If we should bolcott chinese products we should also bolcott german products.

For people railing on illegal MEXICAN why don't you rail on all those AMERICAN people that are adopting Chinese children? What's wrong with adopting an orphan from this country? Why do you have to travel halfway around the world to adopt a child?

Happy New Year

These two examples are not analogous to their respective real world issues.

German products are not made by people who earn as much in a week as an American french fry guy earns in an hour. Racism aside, German products are usually built to a higher standard than Chinese products and if they compete against an American product, it's not on a pricepoint.

Adopted Chinese children are (for the most part) here legally. Illegal Mexicans are here........illegally. Big difference.

I have absolutely no prejudice whatsoever. All I ask is that we play fair.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

Racism aside, German products are usually built to a higher standard than Chinese products and if they compete against an American product, it's not on a pricepoint.

Racism? Why do you say that? What racism is there in pointing out what has been true for a very long time?

Are we now afraid of offending the Chinese because it's been determined that much of their manufacturing is dubious compared to the ROW?

[SLO-BOB]

"Racism? Why do you say that? What racism is there in pointing out what has been true for a very long time?

Are we now afraid of offending the Chinese because it's been determined that much of their manufacturing is dubious compared to the ROW?
"



No, it was more a reference to earlier comments that the Chinese references were racist. Fwiw - I don't think the Chinese make cheap ***** because they are Chinese. I think they make it because we ask for it and get what we pay for. I also believe they are as capable of making a quality product as anyone. There just hasn't been a demand.

[dd74]

Bob, Wayne - I wholeheartedly agree with both of you.

However, where all-out racism ends, I'm not sure that a certain amount of homegrown economic xenophobia isn't entirely unhealthy for this country.

[aap1966]

Chinese copies of alloy wheels are problematic at times.

[jluetjen]

I still maintain that the whole Chinese Made = Crap Quality argument is just a cheap stereotype amplified by some recent news articles. Some people on this thread have made the point that most people don't appreciate how much stuff is made in China. Once again, my area of expertise is electronics, but I've seen many examples of quality products made in China. That's not to say that there are also shoddy examples, but there are in other cultures too. The US is not immune to people taking shortcuts either.

Some examples of Chinese Quality Product:
- Apple Ipod: While much of the costs of the Ipod at first blush appear asian (the most expensive component, the disk drive is manufactured in either China or the Philippines), one study attributes most of the value to the US. My daughter just got an Ipod and I would hardly consider it to be a shoddy product.

- My previous employer made Printed Circuit boards the size of table tops. We're talking about 60" panels up to 60 layers thick! This is a very technology intensive process. They couldn't get a plating line from American manufacturers that satisfied their requirements. Ultimately they got their plating line (it's at least 150 feat long!) from a Chinese manufacturer, and as far as I know (I was in Sales, not manufacturing) they were very happy with the product. According to the plating engineers that I spoke with, the quality of the product was excellent.

- We have an Vision Fitness Elliptical machine which is very well made. It's built like a tank and prominently marked as being manufactured in China. I've been very happy with the quality.

My point -- you can no more judge the quality of a product based on a "Made in China" label then you can by a "Made in USA" label. What's the old expression? "You can't judge a book by it's cover".

[frogger]

John, I'm less concerned about the quality than by the economic, social, and geopolitical implications of our trade, offshoring, and technology transfer with China/India/Mexico/etc. We can't continue on our current path without serious consequences.

[jluetjen]

Originally Posted by aap1966

Chinese copies of alloy wheels are problematic at times.

Cheap, poorly designed wheels are just that. Just looking at those wheels, it's not clear to me that they are a "copy" of any real competition wheel. There appear to be a number of stress riser points in the design. While they look stylish, they were fundamentally flawed from the get-go. Where they were manufactured most likely had less to do with the failure then by who designed them and the level of stress that they were designed for. If the person who spec'd those wheels for that race car had done their homework, that failure would never have happened.

My concern is that when Americans take the "Chinese products are junk" stereotype, they are fundamentally underestimating the abilities of a major economic competitor, not to mention saddling a significant portion of the world's population with essentially a degrading ethnic stereotype. This second issue is no different then the belief in some circles during the 19th century that people of African descent were not capable of higher level functions. I think that we all recognize the silliness of that belief today.

As far as I'm concerned, the recent China-bashing is really a pretty crude defense to an economic competitor. To underestimate a competitor (or potentially ally for that matter), this is a serious error to make. The Chinese people and the Chinese culture are every bit as capable of succeeding as the US. You need to look no further then the success of Chinese immigrants to the US to appreciate the potential abilities of China. It's not what country you or your ancestors came from that matters -- it's how effectively you use the resources available to you that matters.

[jluetjen]

Originally Posted by frogger

John, I'm less concerned about the quality than by the economic, social, and geopolitical implications of our trade, offshoring, and technology transfer with China/India/Mexico/etc. We can't continue on our current path without serious consequences.

Frogger, I've already vented my opinion on that subject over on this thread. Take a look through the article about the iPod. The Ipod would be considered an "offshored" product by most people here, but the researchers in the piece dug down deeper to try to understand who was making money on each step of the value chain. When it was totaled up, the country making the most money on the "outsourced" iPod was the US. It was the low margin steps that were all being done overseas.