Yup
 

My daughter is eight. When she was six she looked at me one day and said, "Daddy, is EVERYTHING made in China?" I said, "Why do you ask baby". Her response, "Well, everything, like my toys, clothes and stuff says, 'Made in China, Made in China".

She got it right at age six.

Yep, remember that from when I was a kid, too. I'm a little older now, and I don't expect ANYTHING I buy to last. Not even my tools. I use them gently and properly, but at some point they will break. Then I have to truck off and get a new one. It's like a black hole of Chinese *****, there's no escaping it.

Except in an old Porsche...;)

B&O has some parts made in China, I'm sure they have had for quite some time.

Still, absolutely nothing wrong with Chinese made electronics as long as they're made to the right standard. My Beolab Penta IIIs are still going after 13 years of high volume all-day playing. Never a single fault!

What about Hazet tools?

AMEN

Shyt quality nowadays

I figure it's so we buy same product on a regular basis to keep the "economy" going. caugh...bullshyit...

In the meantime, we're filling the landfill.

Moral of the story? Spend more per product, buy less later.

Still is not a guarantee nowadays though.. :( But if you can afford a bit more for a great product, it's way cheeper in the longrun, for your pocket and the landfill...

If it's designed in the US and manufactured in China, and it's a POS, who does one blame? There's a difference. Shoddy specs are the responsibility of the designer. Shoddy manufacturing is the responsibility of both since they have shared responsibilities in producing the item as designed.

When hazardous materials are the issue, the manufacturer, w/o the designer's knowledge, either substitutes an alternate material instead of the spec'd material or the designer doesn't specify the necessary specifications. Unfortunately, designers/importers must now repeat a QC step to ensure product elements aren't hazardous, especially with toys and other consumer products. It's an added cost ultimately paid for by the consumer. No complaint on my part even though I enjoy lower prices like anyone else.

While there are several thousand items produced in China, a blanket condemnation of Chinese-made products isn't fair to those made to a good/high quality. The same can be said of most countries that produce products for US consumption.

Sherwood
(no affiliation)

Beginning today, Jan 1, Trader Joe's will stop carrying stuff from China.

Global Free TradeTM rocks! We export jobs and technology and import all our crap from China and Mexico. :)

Of course, CEOs have done an excellent job of convincing the American public that they shouldn't pay a premium for something built in the US of A and you can live better and have more by buying things built in the Far East.I, for one, would pay a premium for a television built by Americans. I remember the old brand names....Motorola, Philco, RCA, Zenith, and many others. Built like tanks.

I bought 2 pairs of Born shoes that i thought were Swedish to find the "Made in China" sticker on the box...

I've read that 50% of the world's consumer goods are manufactured in China. That's an amazing statistic if true. I wonder what that percentage would be if you looked at all of asia, as Japan is still a large manufacturing base, and places like Thailand, Viet Nam, and the rest of SE Asia must make up a decent percentage, too.

Ultimately, we as consumers decided this. People had a choice between quantity and quality, and the market always goes with quantity. People are always after the cheapest possible price, and this is the natural result.

Y'now, I was going to start a thread on isolationism, which has become the four lettered word of the millenia, and this would be one of the sub-topics. I am so against the deluge of foriegn crap. You can blame designers and you can blame manufacturing, and you can even blame us for being cheap, but the real blame lies much farther up the food chain. Look to a (relative) handful of very rich people and the politicians (pretty much all of them) they own. They have done a heck of a job convincing otherwise intelligent people, many of whom participate in this forum, that "free trade" is a great thing. Then, to add insult to injury, we are labeled "isolationists" if we want anything done about something that is clearly a problem. This is not "free trade". It is an imbalance. Free trade is not competing against an opponant who's people live in cardboard boxes and make $5 a week and isolationism is not simply wanting to level the playing field. Right now they are, or have, lifted tariffs on truck imports. The Japanese have been making trucks here because, with the tariffs, it was not cost effective to do so in their home country. Now guess what will happen? That's right - Korean manufacturers are already starting their ad blitz to get you into their cheap trucks. The Japanese will soon feel that pressure and, with the tariffs lifted, will do what everyone else has done - move operations to where they can compete. Where does that leave the big 3 who are already hobbled.

Now, you are no doubt thinking I'm seeing only one side of this story. I recognize that there are benefits to cheap Chinese goods that benefit us all. It creates competition in the sense that manufacturers need to get very efficient to compete. American cars were absolute garbage when the little Hondas showed up at the docks. Say what you will, American cars are a much improved product vs their foriegn counterparts today. We also benefit because we have more money left over from buying that cheap Korean truck to buy more cheap Chinese tools, which benefits retailers, which benefits us. We as consumers can load more *****ty plastic toys and battery operated jeeps into our backyards than ever before and there's a TV in every kitchen. We no doubt have "luxuries" that our grandparents never dreamed of. But, unlike them, do we have anything that will last? What will you hand down to your kids? What do you own that is cost effective to repair vs replace? Also, we are becoming a retail society instead of a manufacturing society. Which paycheck would you rather earn - retail or manufacturing? Of course other factors exist such as a booming construction industry building malls to house these retailers of Chinese crap. Don't get me started on the influx of Mexican labor! :)

I applaud the efforts of businesses like trader Joe's who refuse to carry Chinese goods. Starting today I will shop there. As mentioned (by someone who I completely disagree with) in another thread, Chinese food represents a tiny percent of food imports. However, my point is, it still amounts to billions of dollars of imports as well as opens the door for more imports. Factor in that they are notoriously slack in quality control, and you have a situation where, not only does it mess with our economy long term, but it poisons us short term! Until we straighten this out, get used to paying too much for cheap ***** that will, yes - excellent point - fill up our landfills.

Rant far from over:mad:

Glad it's not just me. It's sad, but when my daughter buys cheap toys with her allowance I've made it a habit of warning her not to expect her new toy to last very long.

A couple of years ago she was really in to The Incredibles. Friends and family all bought her Incredibles toys for her birthday. I swear that every single one broke within a few weeks of her birthday.

My nephew got a toy "guitar" for Christmas. Its built in amp quit on the 26th. His parents returned it and bought a "real" guitar from a music store. There's no chance this kid will ever learn to play as his new instrument won't stay in tune. Once it's as close to being tuned as it will get, chords sound terrible. I guess I don't need to mention that everything I discussed here came from China.

I remember going to a department store in Santa Monica in 1984 to buy a dress shirt. I told the young lady who was the sales clerk that if she could find a shirt made in the US that I would by it. She could not find one. Granted they were not all made in China but the majority were Asian. This is not new. I made do until I could get to Brooks Brothers for a USA made shirt. Now most of the Brooks Brothers shirts are made overseas.

Then you could spot the Taiwan, Malaysian and Chinese products because of inferior design or quality. Now with design either coming from outside or heavily influenced with years of experience even the quality is better.

I worked for a team in the late 70's sponsored by the guy who started the Style Auto line of jackets and clothing which some may remember. Cheep looking and cheaply made in Korea. The guy would send over to the Korean garment factory a sample jacket with the designs / logos he wanted safety pined onto the sample. Sometimes the idea was lost in the translation.

He wanted a red Ferrari jacket with the prancing horse logo along with Good Year and others on the back. Not having a good example of the logo he pined a piece of paper on the back with the words "Ferrari Logo" hand written across it. The picture below shows what he got back - 1000 of them. When I asked what he did with them without hesitation he said I'm selling them. That summer I saw one on a guy at a race track and couldn't resist asking him to pose for a picture. He had no idea.

Maybe this was a picture of where the US was heading. This was 30 years ago!


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1199205378.jpg

Sounds like there is a market opportunity here. Someone needs to go out and identify well made products (from whatever region) and sell them at a premium. I just trashed my growing collection of modern telephones that don't work and finally bought a 20 year old rotary phone made by Northern Telecom. Aside from the fact that I like the retro look of the rotary dial and the wonderful sound of the BELL when it rings, I love the fact that it is built like the proverbial tank. You could pound nails with this beast. I plan to replace all of my cheap crap phones with 20 year old rotaries.

And as I get older and more affluent, I keep wondering where I can go to get high quality goods. I'm willing and able to pay a premium. But does anybody even market quality goods anymore? Where do rich people shop?

Yes you can escape it. Bang & Olufsen is still made in Denmark, where its always been produced.

Very good quality and while its expensive, I am still listening to the B&O stereo I purchased in 1989, so the cost per day/week/month/year is very good.

Its kinda like buying a nice watch that lasts you forever. You buy it once and keep it until you are tired of it, not because its broken.

Joe

Joe:

As Kathryn used to say:

"It isn't how much you pay for something, it is how often you have to pay it".

Or as John Beresford Tipton used to say:

"You get what you pay for."

As long as the sheeple are willing to believe the Wal-Mart mantra of how much you save and how much more you can buy, we will have crap.

It used to be "Made in Japan", now it's "Made in China".

My Dad has a wood sign on his desk that says, "Unemployment Office" and in small letters in the front corner, but very obvious, "Made in Japan". It was made in the USA as a joke, but reflected what people were thinking back then. He's had it at least 50 years now.

It's all crap. I pretty much treat everything as disposable these days. I got 2 years out of my iPod, and that was it. I never replaced it. If I get 3 years out of a laptop, I'm happy. My last digital camera lasted one year and four months. Luckily Costco still replaced it for free.

Costco's recent change of policy on returning electronics really sucks. They used to have a LIFETIME guarantee on everything! I bought all my electronics there. That was sweet, the digicam stops working after 3 years, you take it back and exchange it for a much better one, brand new, for free.

Too much abuse of the policy (people would return their still working 10 year old TVs, etc), though, and now it's only a 90 day Costco warranty on electronics.

You're joking, right?

my g/f was made in hong kong. She isn't poor quality at all...you guys are just checking out the wrong stuff or in the wrong places.

Hong Kong is a different animal.......

Hong Kong was under British rule when she was made. And how long is she gonna last anyways? That is where build quality matters..;)

Aurel

25 years on my Rolex watch worn daily and still going strong.

Good point. So far so good, but maybe an extended warranty is called for. She does have a younger sister.

My comment still stands though. Mainland China, Singapore, Philippines, Vietnam and Japan...had great luck with them. The only crazy ones were made in Korea (well, and a few US-made versions). Go figure...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1199211121.jpg

no, I think he's saying that you're joking about them prefiously having a lifetime guarantee on everything. I never heard of that...Craftsman tools, but not on electronics.

They did have a lifetime, no questions asked return policy, on everything (except maybe computers, but including all other electronics, including TVs, cameras, DVD, etc. etc.).

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/announcements/costco-officially-changes-return-policy-for-the-worse-239924.php

You could not afford a television that was completely made in the US (every component). It would probably cost about $100k.

Anyone here remember a thing from high school called history? Rumor has it that it tends to repeat itself.
After WWII Japan was trying to recover and develop some manufacturing. They were short of raw materials, so they made little tin toys and stuff, usually very fragile due to being stingy with materials.
Made in Japan was an insult. It meant crap, junk, not worth more than a few pennies.
Later, they got better. Slowly they increased quality, complexity, and now made in Japan means it is veprobably the best and very expensive. After they became a world manufacturing power, they also because a world consumer. Their standard of living increased, their labor cost increased, they became westernized.
In stepped Taiwan, South Korea, etc. They all did the same thing. They started making stuff cheap, and eventually it got better, then it got more expensive.

Now onto China. They made stuff like crap a decade ago. Their quality is getting better. It still has a way to go but it is well on the way.
Now why would anyone expect anything China to turn out any different than any other country?
They have more natural resources, they have more people, so it's on a grander scale but the same thing will happen. In another 10 years stuff made in China will be top quality, we will be more than happy to buy it if we can afford it, but we will be b!tching about cheap crap made in Turkey and Africa.

See, we drive this trend. It is our fault. we as consumers want affordable stuff. we will buy it if the price is low enough, but if it is really high we will not. Sure a few of us might say that we would pay a premium for one thing or another, but on average no one wants to pay alot for anything. Business responds to our wants. They give us what we ask for.
We want cheap, they give us cheap. It's always been that way.

I'd also say that most of us are victims of the sensationalistic media. They decided recently to go after "made in China". It was a way to get people fired up, and after all that is how they stay in business.
"China toys contain lead which kills our kids". Bah.
What they don't tell you is that the paint on those toys contain about .05% lead oxide. Big freaking deal. That's barely over the very conservative limit. They also don't tell you that my generation played with toys that contained 100 times more lead than those toys being recalled now. Big freaking deal. It is BS.
Don't let them control your minds.

My laptop, an HP Pavilion 1310US, just took a dump around Thanks Giving. Bought it in 05' before college. First the hard drive went, but that was no big deal, I just replaced it. $100 I shouldn't have had to spend, but whatever. Then the screen went; I was surfing the web and all the sudden it sort of flashed, and then went dark. Greeaaatttt...now THAT is an inconvenience. And then the CD/DVD burner died. And now the modem. Wow, I got all of 2 years out of it...BAH.

I still have 9GB Cheetah SCSI drives that were purchased new (for a fortune) running in my bought-used custom built Dual PentiumII 300mhz desktop. The only thing to ever fail on it was the power supply, which I overloaded, and knew I did. Even then it ran for many months. Replaced it with a bigger one, and again it runs. Even when it overheated multiple times because I couldn't see that the CPU0 fan wasn't plugged into the fan header. Still runs...

I have a SUN UltraSPARC 1 Enterprise. Runs like a top. And built like a tank.

Or how about the Motorola 8420 I had? Made in the late 80s, Dual Processor 6800, used in service at a large company until about 5 years ago when I got it. IT STILL WORKS! Not even any DISK ERRORS! I finally sold it for $200, and MADE money.

I've had more recently purchased computer components fail on me. Like a bunch ATAPI/IDE disks. And blown capacitors on motherboards. Like the server at work that over heated and spilled its guts (and magic smoke). That's it, all it took, one time. My old PII-300 has over heated multiple times, no problems.

I'll stop ranting now, but basically what I've found is that for computers, if it HAS to last, spend as much as you possibly can. They are NOT made like they used to be. I'm trying to make a move to all UltraSPARC based machines, and for good reason.

Good luck Wayne...

PS: Try buying the "server" chipset boards if you haven't already. They tend to get the less craptastic crap.

"Made in China" is a euphemism for "crap built by slaves".

For one, I go out of my way to look for products that are made elsewhere. Seriously. I do. I look at the labels. It is very hard to find stuff NOT made in China, but I do look and it is a primary factor in my purchasing decisions.

A couple of weeks ago I passed on a Ryobi sander and bought a Makita one, even though the Ryobi one had better features for the dollar. Reason? The Ryobi one was made in China. Yes, I actually put it back on the shelf and paid more for the Makita one with supposedly "inferior" features, because it is built in Georgia, here in the U.S.A. It's been working fine. No problems (knock wood). I'm sure there's some guy in Georgia happy with my decision. And I feel good knowing my dollars are helping that guy in Georgia to support his family, rather than going over to China helping to reward their slave-labor society and fund their government building bombs and guns to possibly one day be pointed at us.

Point is, I will pay more for stuff made pretty much anywhere other than in the commie slave-labor gulag known as "China". I owe nothing to them and refuse to put my money into rewarding them for treating their citizens like chattel, polluting the hell out of the environment, building sub-standard junk, etc. I will pay even more for something made here in the U.S.A., out of U.S. components. And I do. Same with European-made stuff. Most of those countries have excellent working conditions and treat their labor force well, and build quality products that are meant to last more than a few weeks. I reward that with my wallet. They've earned it. China hasn't.

Ultimately, China only seems to do one thing well - make crap cheap. And that's largely because they say "f*ck the environment" and "people are expendable, who cares" about their own citizens. If so-and-so doesn't want to work in the sweatshop anymore due to the hazardous conditions, they kick his ass out into the street and plug some 12-year-old kid in his place. People mean NOTHING in that society. I just don't see it at all. It's like the Borg. Individuality counts for little, and only the collective interest is deemed important.

Sorry, but I have very little respect for China. Their economy and "growth" is a sham, created by a despotic government by forcing the populace at gunpoint to make it happen. If that makes me an "isolationist" or "insensitive" or "culturally naive" or whatever, fine. I don't care. I refuse to reward that kind of behavior and if someone doesn't like it, they can kiss my ass. Our fathers and grandfathers fought to prevent that kind of economic model from succeeding, and to prevent communism from taking over the world and now Joe Six-Pack and the rest of Idiot America want to just chuck all that and say "aww, f*ck it, we were just kidding" in the name of getting a cheaper plasma TV. What a crock.

Here's the harsh reality: China is an ENEMY of the United States. They are NOT our friends and they most certainly do NOT represent our interests. I have no doubt whatsoever that they want to eventually destroy the United States and become the sole governing power in the world. The first step in doing so is to take over the world's manufacturing (which they're doing, and which we're doing such a great job handing to them) so everyone else is dependent on them. Furthermore, they are deliberately and systematically undermining the U.S. economy by taking advantage of Idiot America's insatiable lust for cheap junk - particularly consumer electronics. They happily extend us the credit to buy their slave-labor built garbage in return for owning greater and greater shares of the U.S. Don't believe me? Look at the percentages of Chinese-backed investments in the U.S. over the last 30 years. We're very close to a tipping point where if the Chinese ever wanted to literally destroy the American economy overnight, all they'd have to do is call in their debts.

Thank you Idiot America for handing our country, which our forefathers fought for and died for, to the most vile, despotic and oppressive government in the world. Way to go. Enjoy your GPS unit and your toaster.

Until Americans stop expecting to make six figures and buy $1.00 t-shirts we will continue down the current path. Current regulations allow manufacturers to add less than 1% (that is one percent) of US made material to a finished good and label it as Made in USA. Until we get back to core manufacturing in The US we will continue to depend more and more on foreign sources. Don't blame the EPA (this was Nixon's baby!), OSHA, or any of the other regulations. Blame ourselves for moving away from our manufacturing roots. 100 years ago all the junk items selling in Europe were Made in USA. If you want to stop this, get with American manufacturing and buy direct from US Owned entities.

Sorry, I'm ranting mad and not making much sense. Buy US Made Products, but know that most of their content was made elsewhere.

I think that saying a TV made in America would cost tens of thousands is an exaggeration. With our ability to use robotics and modern manufacturing methods a bit more expensive, yes. But the Far East has to put up with ever increasing costs of transportation which domestically produced goods would not have to bother with to the same degree. The "weak dollar" can work to our advantage domestically as well if only we, as a manufacturing nation have the stones to take advantage of it.

I see the brainwashing amongst our elite group here as well. We demand lower costs and the latest generation of adults have no concept of "quality". That is unfortunate.

I also actively seek goods from the USA and other first world economies. I end up buying a lot of vintage stuff and refurbing it. It would never work if I had little kids to buy for or if we wanted all the latest gadgets. Seems like all we really manufacture here is military hardware. I am hoping the US companies can figure out a way to bring some of the manufacturing back.

Transportation costs are not nearly the factor you might think (on volume products). Delivery delays, customs issues and "stuffed pipeline" quality problems are much more serious.

I just outfitted my whole home office with two desks, three bookshelves with glass doors, two filing cabinets, a big dresser, and other odds and ends for under $1000.

I got everything at Ikea. Ikea stuff requires assembly, and it all fit together perfectly and is very sturdy. You won't see my office in Architectural Digest, but it looks nice enough.

The thing that amazed me was that everything I bought was very cheap, and made is Sweden. And good quality. I don't know how they do it, cost-wise, without cheap Chinese slave labor.

[QUOTE=Porsche-O-Phile;3676625

A couple of weeks ago I passed on a Ryobi sander and bought a Makita one, even though the Ryobi one had better features for the dollar. Reason? The Ryobi one was made in China. Yes, I actually put it back on the shelf and paid more for the Makita one with supposedly "inferior" features, because it is built in Georgia, here in the U.S.A. It's been working fine. No problems (knock wood). I'm sure there's some guy in Georgia happy with my decision. And I feel good knowing my dollars are helping that guy in Georgia to support his family, rather than going over to China helping to reward their slave-labor society and fund their government building bombs and guns to possibly one day be pointed at us.

[/QUOTE]


You do know that Makita is a Japanese company? I do agree Makita is a 1000 times better product then Ryobi!

One dollar, where? I'm paying $2.50 for mine, I knew there must be someplace to get them cheaper. Don't hold out now, share your secret..... ;)

Actually, I am rather incredulous that someone would take something back to Costco after 3 years of use, broken, and exchange it "for free" for the latest and greatest. Its this kind of abuse that forced Costco to change its policy. IMHO, if you use something for that long, and it only costs a few hundred bucks to begin with, you should toss it and be thankful for the value it brought you. Instead, some people feel Costco's other customers owe them the newest model, for free. For some reason, I just can't get my arms around that kind of mentality.