"Energy Victory" - The Plan To Destroy OPEC

Rearden · 01-02-2008, 03:22 PM

I saw the author, Robert Zubrin, speak on CSPAN the other day. Very interesting plan. He proposes that the US government mandate that all cars sold in the US be flex-fuel cars.

http://www.energyvictory.net/

Racerbvd · Racerbvd's Garage

I say we quit feeding them, cut the water, tech & defence too.

cashflyer · 01-02-2008, 03:33 PM

An even better plan if the economics of ethanol wasn't such a lie.

Also...

Quote:

In 2007, roughly 90 percent of all cars sold in Brazil were flex-fueled, but outside of that country, their market share was quite low - comprising about 3 percent of US auto sales, for example.

So... how many cars are on the road in Brazil? 14 million?
And how many are in America? Over 240 million, according to USDOT.

A huge difference in the amount of acreage required to produce bio-fuel for 14M vs. 240M.

jyl · jyl's Garage

What does he say about overall fuel economy standards?

I think we have to substantially increase fleet MPG, to cut demand enough to put a lid on oil prices.

The reason is that we do not have the means to produce enough corn-based ethanol to do the job, at least not if we want to keep the impact on food prices to a tolerable level (not to mention water resources). And non-corn-based ethanol is still a technology in the making, for the US where sugarcane doesn't grow well.

Meanwhile, the means and technology to increase average US fleet MPG is already available.

Rearden · 01-02-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl

What does he say about overall fuel economy standards?

He says that gasoline conservation doesn't really matter. He proposes that if, impossibly, the world were to agree to cut gasoline consumption by 5% through conservation. OPEC would simply look at the supply-demand curve and cut production enough to offset the reduced demand. Result: no change.

He thinks methanol is more promising than ethanol, because it can be made from materials other than foodstuffs. In any event, flex-fuel cars could use any combination of gasoline, ethanol, and methanol (and other alcohols).

Superman · 01-02-2008, 03:41 PM

The war being fought with guns overseas is a smoke screen. A diversion. One that will hurt us.

This war, being discussed on this thread, is the one that makes sense. That's understating it substantially. We are, currently, in several economic battles. And....it looks like we don't even know there is a conflict. Dubya is making the perfect, exact......wrong moves.

Flatbutt1 · 01-02-2008, 04:02 PM

I really don't understand why more Americans are not aware of our enslavment to oil and its owners. The oil cartels won't be happy until we are an impoverished nation incapable of defending or even feeding ourselves. And to many of us don't seem to care.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

The only long-term solution is reduced consumption and a migration to renewable sources.

Everything else is ultimately just a band-aid.

tabs · 01-02-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flatbutt1

I really don't understand why more Americans are not aware of our enslavment to oil and its owners. The oil cartels won't be happy until we are an impoverished nation incapable of defending or even feeding ourselves. And to many of us don't seem to care.

We have a real Forest Gump type of statement here. We don't need any help from the ARABS to impoverish us, we have done a good job of doing it all by ourselves.

tabs · 01-02-2008, 04:19 PM

Knowledge has begat prosperity which has caused us to become frenzied in its never ending pursuit of more. To keep the prosperity engine running you need to keep expanding and consuming at ever greater rates till the whole ecosystem collapses under its own weight. What we need is a good healthy dose of fear just like in the good ole days of yore..before we lost God in favor of technological advancement. Man needs to be afraid of the dark and that can't be accomplished when he brings a flashlight with him.

Superman · 01-02-2008, 04:27 PM

A monkey is not going to accidentally type the Gettysburg Address. But.....a stopped clock is correct twice a day and Tabs' last post has the appearance of insight.

Moneyguy1 · 01-02-2008, 04:34 PM

"Knowledge has begat prosperity........"

That line does not seem to indicate that knowledge has anything to do with intelligence. To me, a truly intelligent and insightful individual would also be more on the pragmatic (if that is the right word) side in making decisions about "things". Knowledge by itself says nothing about the individual's ability to make rational decisions. Knowledge is just a collection of information and of itself has no moral or ethical basis. It is how that knowledge is applied.

If I am wrong, I am sure tabby will set me straight.

hytem · 01-02-2008, 04:34 PM

The weak dollar is fueling oil costs, and is a major concern in the stock market. Oil is now at $100 a barrel. I hope those people in Iowa are taking notice.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

He thinks methanol is more promising than ethanol, because it can be made from materials other than foodstuffs. In any event, flex-fuel cars could use any combination of gasoline, ethanol, and methanol (and other alcohols).

He's got that absolutly right, the only reason the gumment is pushing ethanol is the midwestern farm lobbyists. From an energy or cost perspective ethanol is a disaster.

Same w/ net metering for electric usage. They won't allow shopping centers and other commercial sites that have the potential for a lot of solar energy production to sell to the power co. like individual homeowners can, because the large producers can put a real dent in the power companies need to generate.. What nonsense

frogger · 01-02-2008, 04:39 PM

You guys are shaking my faith-based support of global free trade.

Rearden · 01-02-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogger

You guys are shaking my faith-based support of global free trade.

There would be plenty of opportunity for global free trade under this scenario. No need to lose faith.

tabs · 01-02-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman

A monkey is not going to accidentally type the Gettysburg Address. But.....a stopped clock is correct twice a day and Tabs' last post has the appearance of insight.

OK Uncle Superman.

Superman · 01-02-2008, 04:49 PM

I too am disgusted with the crap Bill mentions. I wish corporate interests were aligned with the insterests of the public, but they are not. Those who think they are........are not paying attention.

Bob's remarks are equally insightful. I was recently thinking that the difference between smart people and dumb people is connections. Everything is connected with everything else. Some folks see few connections. Others see many.

Superman · 01-02-2008, 04:50 PM

I still love you though, Tabs.

tabs · 01-02-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

"Knowledge has begat prosperity........"

That line does not seem to indicate that knowledge has anything to do with intelligence. To me, a truly intelligent and insightful individual would also be more on the pragmatic (if that is the right word) side in making decisions about "things". Knowledge by itself says nothing about the individual's ability to make rational decisions. Knowledge is just a collection of information and of itself has no moral or ethical basis. It is how that knowledge is applied.

If I am wrong, I am sure tabby will set me straight.

Intelligent and insightfull are terms that are not mutually inclusive of each other.

There are a lot of intelligent people on this Board who have absolutley no insight into anything. They are caught up purely in the moment without any power of self reflection nor any desire to do so.

Men have aqquired alot of technological knowledge which is reflect in our everyday lives. Who ever said that men overall were intellignet creatures. After all we evolved from monkeys for Christs sake, and how intelligent can we be if we are a monkeys uncle.