Who Should You Vote For?

[Jim Bremner]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/page?id=3623346

Have Fun.

[legion]

I hate these polls. The healthcare questions all presume the government should even do anything. There was not a single question about the issues I find most important.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by legion

I hate these polls. The healthcare questions all presume the government should even do anything. There was not a single question about the issues I find most important.

Maybe the solution is everytime someone gets sick they post something in the Pelican forum to raise money for them.

I lost my friend Tom recently, he was on a heart transplant list. He had no insurance as a self employed lawyer and musician.

America is filled with people like my friend Tom and Warren Hall, do we walk away and blame them for getting sick?

Why have collection agencies take everything you own including your home to pay the hospital bill? Is this UNITED WE STAND?

[legion]

Bad things happen to good people. I don't see how that is a justification for forcing me to pay for their bad circumstances. Voluntary? Fine. But don't force me to pay for it through taxes.

[Moneyguy1]

legion..

I hate to say it, but I pray that nothing bad happens to you. It may change your mind a bit about being your brother's keeper. I have seen too many people ruined by medical costs that were not their fault. I have a brother who has had a series of strokes. He has some coverage, but I am helping him to the extent I can so he can keep his house!!

I was lucky I had insurance when the Doctor killed my wife. WIthout it, his "oops" would have cost me over $300,000. Now...the question is: should those paying the premiums be subsidizing such situations or should the doctor's insurance reimburse BC/BS?

[Moses]

Originally Posted by legion

Bad things happen to good people. I don't see how that is a justification for forcing me to pay for their bad circumstances. Voluntary? Fine. But don't force me to pay for it through taxes.

Healthcare is one of the only issues where I abandon my libertarian stance. It's truly a shame that hardworking Americans need to be bankrupted before they have access to the care they need.

Keep in mind that the uninsured in the US are never denied emergency care. It is illegal to deny emergency care for any reason, including inability to pay.

The uninsured are extremely costly to care for;

1) They use Emergency rooms like a doctors office.
2) There is no coordination of care.
3) Neglected disease is EXPENSIVE to fix.
4) There is no way to control or limit cost. An uninsured patient can get emergency MRI examinations in different hospitals every week if they want. Crazy.

It would be cheaper if every uninsured American was automatically enrolled in MediCaid (or the states equivalent). They would receive good care, have access to real preventative care and we would all benefit.

In California, the plan would be MediCal. MediCal provides a great service, but it is not terribly convenient or consumer-friendly at times. There would always be a strong incentive to buy private insurance to avoid the limited choices that come with MediCal.

Healthcare in the US is an unfunded mandate. It is illegal to deny emergency care, but the uninsured can not get the preventative care that would eliminate most of the emergency room visits.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by Moses

It would be cheaper if every uninsured American was automatically enrolled in MediCaid (or the states equivalent). They would receive good care, have access to real preventative care and we would all benefit.

Moses i tend to place a lot of weight on your opinions in this area since you are in the industry and i agree with SO MUCH of what your post said....BUT your suggestion which i have quoted does not fix the problem but rather puts a very expensive band-aid on the symptom. the economics of health care (drug patents, drug sales, insurance companies, etc) are simply not compatible with the concept that all citizens should have access to quality care. it doesn't work.

the ONLY people getting rich (or living well) in medicine should be the docs themselves. yet we have insurance company execs and sales reps, drug co. execs and sales reps, etc. making an awfully nice living on the backs of the tax paying citizens of this nation and is just wrong.

socialized medicine (there, i said it) such as what Livi and our Canadian friends can speak to us about is what we should be looking at. and by socialized medicine i do not mean gov't subsidized insurance which is as far as it has gone at this point. big drug and big insurance will fight to the death to prevent this and try to scare us all with promises of doom but i say BS to that.

i know many of you will dismiss my comments out of hand as soon as you read 'socialized', but for those of you who might take some interest in my comments i would ask that the next time you hear a politician talk about some federally funded insurance understand that it costs them nothing (tax dollars come from us you know) and keeps their lobby friends happy.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by legion

Bad things happen to good people. I don't see how that is a justification for forcing me to pay for their bad circumstances. Voluntary? Fine. But don't force me to pay for it through taxes.

Legion I would argue that we ALL benefit from a healthier America.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

legion..

I hate to say it, but I pray that nothing bad happens to you. It may change your mind a bit about being your brother's keeper. I have seen too many people ruined by medical costs that were not their fault. I have a brother who has had a series of strokes. He has some coverage, but I am helping him to the extent I can so he can keep his house!!

I was lucky I had insurance when the Doctor killed my wife. WIthout it, his "oops" would have cost me over $300,000. Now...the question is: should those paying the premiums be subsidizing such situations or should the doctor's insurance reimburse BC/BS?

How does that make it my responsibility to pay for other people's healthcare?

Shifting the cost to other people does nothing to address the root causes that are making healthcare expensive. If anything, it allows those drivers to remain hidden and unaddressed. Creating a huge federal bureaucracy just adds more layers of inefficiency that will further inflate costs.

[legion]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Legion I would argue that we ALL benefit from a healthier America.

Yes, more overpopulation, overconsumption, and higher taxes to support it is a good thing.

[The Gaijin]

I have read a few things lately... The theory is - any way any fix is going to work is if there is some kind of deductible and/or co-pays for routine health care. Everything too cheap is wasted. That goes for gasoline and SUVs and insurance (private or govenment) that pays dollar one and every single one after that. If people have no stake whatsoever in their medical bills - unstable increases are inevitable..

[rouxroux]

If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em!

[Jim Bremner]

anyone who is thinking of voting for taxed based health care should take a drive down to their local DMV.

That's what WILL become of health care.

[Hawktel]

We do need something done about health care.

The costs in it are out of control. 22% inflation I read in one report a week or so ago.

I think the system needs a complete reworking, from defining who and what our doctors are to how medical care is undertaken in this country.

[sammyg2]

Medical care is a service. It costs money. It is not free and it shouldn't be free. For anyone. Ever. If you want it, you pay, either in cash or with insurance. No pay, no care.
If you don't have insurance and you get sick you're in trouble.
If you don't have money there is medicare, if you have too much money to qualify for medicare but not enough for insurance, perhaps your priorities are a bit "off".

I know a guy who can't afford medical insurance but he can afford his new pick up truck, he can afford to go all over the country chasing NASCAR events, he can afford to go to the sports bar and drink beer several nights a week. Should I be responsible for paying for his medical care? Not in a zillion years.
I know another guy who makes about $75k a year and his wife makes about $40k a year working part time. They have 4 children and no medical insurance.
They have a near new denali SUV, they have a very large and expensive house in south Orange country not too far from the beach, they just bought a $3500 refrigerator, but they "can't" afford medical insurance. They are too busy trying to out-spend their neighbors, if they paid for medical insurance they wouldn't be able to do that.

I've always had insurance. Even when I wasn't making very much money I still had insurance. When I couldn't get it through my employer I paid out of my own pocket. My wife and kids have insurance. They always will.
I can't help but wonder why it's so easy for some and so hard for others. I know it's not cheap but nothing is. If someone isn't making very much money, maybe they should have paid attention in school. Maybe they should have gotten better grades. Maybe he should have graduated, maybe she should have waited until she was 18 before she got pregnant. It's their life, their decisions, their consequences. Not mine.

I'm not talking about the 1 in a million hardship case here, I'm talking about the other millions in this country who don't have medical insurance because they wanted to spend the money on something else and weren't willing to do without to have insurance. Or their skills aren't worth enough to justify an employer paying them a decent wage. Again, they created that mess for themselves. Not me.

[skipdup]

Sammy- Well said. I don't really like how it makes me "feel", but it's truth.

[Racerbvd]

I

lost my friend Tom recently, he was on a heart transplant list. He had no insurance as a self employed lawyer and musician.

He chose not to have it, I'm self employed and I an insured, I pay. Many of those those not to pay for insurance, they may have a 65" flat screen TV & a new car, but ***** because they CHOSE not to 1) buy into a health insurance plan, 2) not live a healthy life.

Everything too cheap is wasted. That goes for gasoline and SUVs and insurance (private or govenment) that pays dollar one and every single one after that.

Every time I fill my Suburban it cost about $100, I'm already paying more tax since I use more gas. Right now I'm moving a lot of my stuff to a new building, so I can't use the 911.

the ONLY people getting rich (or living well) in medicine should be the docs themselves. yet we have insurance company execs and sales reps, drug co. execs and sales reps, etc. making an awfully nice living on the backs of the tax paying citizens of this nation and is just wrong.

If someone offers a service, and does a good job (that includes company execs and sales reps, drug co. execs and sales reps, etc) they should be allowed to earn what they can. You left out the ones who don't deserve and are the ones driving up the cost, LAWYERS like john edwards!! And no one touched on the impact that illegals are having on the system, needy Americans go without & die while we let illegals bankrupt the system

I agree with Legion, why should I pay to take care of someone who smokes like a chimney, drinks like a fish, eats like a pig does drugs & makes a payment on a new SUV instead of an insurance premium???

[Porsche-O-Phile]

According to the survey (which I agree is EXTREMELY simplistic) "my candidates" are:

1. Ron Paul
2. Mike Gravel
3. Mitt Romney

I guess I'm not surprised. But I'm not letting Disney pick my candidate for me either.

I agree with sammy above - medicine is an expensive thing, largely due to liability and the stakes involved. It shouldn't be free. EVER. If people want to subsidize others' health care, then they can do so through works of charity and compassion, like we saw people here willing to do for EarlySMan (Warren). Nothing wrong with that. But when the gubmint starts stepping in and demanding that we do so, I have a real problem with that.

I have issues with virtually EVERYTHING the government does. They screw it up 9 times out of 10. It's probably no secret that I'd like to see about 90% of government dismantled and tossed back to the private sector, but that's another issue (perhaps). With respect to health care - people need to pony up themselves, or find employers that will help them out (competition, it's not a bad thing) or go without - and accept the consequences of whatever they decide.

[berettafan]

great point in regards to people like Edwards, ambulance chasers, people who see a mistake in medical as a lottery ticket. they are not helping as well.

last time this issue came up and the DMV commentary was brought in a few ferners showed up and said 'not the case here'.

and in a socialized medical system mr. SUV and NASCAR groupie would be paying towards his health care via taxes (taxes on income, taxes on that fancy SUV, taxes on those tickets, taxes on cigs, taxes on booze).

[sketchers356]

Paul
Kuccinich
Gravel