Goodbye, you hateful wench

[aigel]

Mine was a project I bought from a friend (non running pig in a poke). It needed the following, by the time I was done:

- Fuel pump relay.
- Transmission stayed in first and second (IIRC) ... needed a new transmission computer.
- ABS system was shot. Needed a new control unit!
- Door panels were peeling.
- Headliner was coming down.
- Heater core leaked. (Nightmare job, including venting the AC!!!)
- Brake calipers leaked.
- Sunroof was broken.

It also needed brakes (pads and rotors all around), a new headlight and taillight housing, new VR6 badges, the trim that covered the welding of the roof to the body and another few odds and ends. Needless to say, I barely got my money back after fixing all that stuff. What a PIECE!!!

But the VR6 was nice indeed.

George

Edit: The leaky heater core said: "made in France" on it. And yes, this was when the car was 7 years old with 70k miles, not recently!

[notfarnow]

Passats must be the worst of all the VWs. I can honetly say I've onlt met one Passat owner (a Pelican, actually) who didn't hate their car.

The local VW shop just loves it when a Passat owner gives up, and sells them their car for parts. A broken down Passat is still a goldmine of "one model only" expensive gadgetry.

Another neat VW trick:
Plastic coolant flanges that eventually warp JUST ENOUGH that you have to constantly top it up and you can always smell the coolant, but not quite enough that you can actually SEE the leak. That's fun for the wife, when it does finally start to pi$$ coolant on the highway.

[aigel]

VW is engineered in Germany and made everywhere else. Drivetrains come from Bulgaria (?) and most the US delivered stuff is built in Mexico. That's all fine but their quality control (at least in the 90s) was non existent.

George

[Dave L]

I had a 2000 GTI VR6, straight off the boat from Germany. These were the days when the warranty was only 24 months. I had the car for 27 months.

It was a really nice car and I did like it a lot but I have never owned any car that had spent more time in a garage. Lousy POS was traded in with a rear wiper that would spray wiper fluid all over, an alarm that would go off by itself and door locks that would randomly lock and unlock while driving. I lost about $10k on that car and couldn't have been happier to get rid of it.

[SlowToady]

Well I guess I lied about not having any problems. My ABS decides to randomly come on. And off. The trick it's starting now, that I love, is the one where it doesn't start. Brand new battery. Oh it starts when it's stone ass cold out, like it did the other day when it was like....21 degrees out. But when it's fully warmed up? After I've been DRIVING it for 12 miles? Nope, won't start. Seriously. Went inside to get gas, come back out, put $7 worth of gas in (college student), and the car wouldn't fire up. It tried mighty hard, shaking all over the place, but wouldn't go. Fuel problem? Probably....now the check engine light is on. Going to stop by JLube in the morning to play with the OBD tool and check out what it's about. Lucky for me I get to drive 436 miles to school on Tuesday, where not only do I not have money for parts, I don't have tools to install them with!

Ironically enough, my dad just said, I think yesterday, that I need to start working more so we can do something with my car. I thought he meant something like, you know, mod. it. He meant replace it. DAMN he's good!

[aigel]

Originally Posted by SlowToady

Well I guess I lied about not having any problems. My ABS decides to randomly come on. And off. The trick it's starting now, that I love, is the one where it doesn't start. Brand new battery. Oh it starts when it's stone ass cold out, like it did the other day when it was like....21 degrees out. But when it's fully warmed up? After I've been DRIVING it for 12 miles? Nope, won't start. Seriously. Went inside to get gas, come back out, put $7 worth of gas in (college student), and the car wouldn't fire up. It tried mighty hard, shaking all over the place, but wouldn't go. Fuel problem? Probably....now the check engine light is on. Going to stop by JLube in the morning to play with the OBD tool and check out what it's about. Lucky for me I get to drive 436 miles to school on Tuesday, where not only do I not have money for parts, I don't have tools to install them with!

Sounds like a "heat soak" issue. Starter solenoid or wiring are something I'd check. Did you hit the starter solenoid when this occured? That usually gets it going.

Good Luck,

George

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by john70t

VW's are really easy to work on.

That's the problem. As a VW owner for any length of time (say 1-3 months beyond the warranty period, for starters), you get to find that out...firsthand. Unlike fine wine, that experience doesn't get better with age.

[chuckw951]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

I'm counting my chickens before they hatch, but I've got a 99 e300d going in for a PPI in Montreal on Monday. If it checks out I'll fly in on Thursday and drive it back. 24 valves, 244 ft lbs turbodiesel. Should be a nice change

I had lines on a couple '04 Jetta TDIs, but I just couldn't buy another VW.

I'm sure you've done your homework on the OM606 engine, but just in case, you should know that sometimes the glowplugs get stuck. I had to have the head pulled on my old 95 E300D to get them out. With that said, the turbo E300D is a great car.

[dtw]

The first car I ever owned was a '92 Corrado VR6. That car taught me the meaning of pain.

[oldE]

Jake,

I figured last May it would only be a matter of time before you pulled the plug on that car.

I suspect I was the one you referred to above: "I can honestly say I've only met one Passat owner (a Pelican, actually) who didn't hate their car." If so, that was a '93 Turbo Diesel which, when traded last month (with a frozen front brake caliper and a rotten brake line in the rear) got me 2200 as a trade-in, with 430,000 kilometers. My wife almost cried to see the car leave the yard.

I managed to land a 2006 Jetta TDI with 21,000km and, so far the biggest PITA has been the programming on the door locks. They're doing what they are supposed to do, but we are used to not locking the car in our dooryard and having access to the trunk, etc without the key or hitting a switch on the driver's door.
Other than that, (early days, I know) it seems to be built like a tank, has a seat that is almost as good as the Recaro in the old E, gets better milage than the Passat (5.6 l/100km vs. 5.75) with enough torque to pass on hills. Of course it is 13 years newer, so it should be more capable.
VW did some really dumb things with the Golf/Jetta design through the 90s: windshield wiper pivots which would seize in 2 - 3 years, heater cores which required the removal of the dash to replace (an all-day job) and an alarm system worthy of Lucas "Prince of Darkness" jokes. I suspect the hatred burning in the breasts of VW owners is due to the feeling of betrayal at having been let down so badly by someone you trusted.

(Jake, as for the Civic, I tried one {despite the ugly front end}and was interested to note the difference in the way Honda and VW went about the job. The VW was upright, a little noisier and more connected to the road, the Honda needed to be rowed whether you wanted to or not, and sacrificed comfort for aerodynamics.)

Happy hunting.
Les

[turbo6bar]

Originally Posted by chuckw951

I'm sure you've done your homework on the OM606 engine, but just in case, you should know that sometimes the glowplugs get stuck. I had to have the head pulled on my old 95 E300D to get them out. With that said, the turbo E300D is a great car.

+1. My dad's 95 is running on 5 good glow plugs. One is seized and cannot be removed without pulling the head. I'll send the car to the junkyard before the head comes off.

The W210 chassis may be better, and I hope the engine is good for you.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by SlowToady

Oh it starts when it's stone ass cold out, like it did the other day when it was like....21 degrees out. But when it's fully warmed up? After I've been DRIVING it for 12 miles? Nope, won't start.

Had the same thing happen with the Golf. When then it started stalling while driving, and turned out to be the $$ Bosch fuel pump relay.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by aigel

Sounds like a "heat soak" issue. Starter solenoid or wiring are something I'd check. Did you hit the starter solenoid when this occured? That usually gets it going.

BAH! That's what drives me crazy about VW. My wife's 91 gas Jetta had persistant heat soak issues with the starter. Why are they having the same problem over 15 years later?!? Do the engineers burn their notes?

It's like the door locks. I've owned an 84, 87, 91 & 96 VW. Each and every one of them had door locks that would freeze up in the winter. As I write, my wife just pulled out of the driveway headed to the store. She had to go in through the passenger side. A friend's 04 Jetta has started to do the same thing.

None of the Hondas or Toyotas I've owned ever had their doors locks freeze up.

Originally Posted by oldE

Jake,

I figured last May it would only be a matter of time before you pulled the plug on that car.

Yes I had a serious hate-on for it when we met. I didn't want to dump $$ in it while Mrs Notfarnow was in Africa, because we had talked about dumping it in October. When she got back, we decided to keep it another year or so and pay down her loans for school. Bad move, because instead we dumped nearly 2k into it since then... nickelled and dimed month after month. "Should be good now," I'd say each month.

Originally Posted by oldE

I suspect I was the one you referred to above: "I can honestly say I've only met one Passat owner (a Pelican, actually) who didn't hate their car." If so, that was a '93 Turbo Diesel which, when traded last month (with a frozen front brake caliper and a rotten brake line in the rear) got me 2200 as a trade-in, with 430,000 kilometers. My wife almost cried to see the car leave the yard.

I managed to land a 2006 Jetta TDI with 21,000km and, so far the biggest PITA has been the programming on the door locks. They're doing what they are supposed to do, but we are used to not locking the car in our dooryard and having access to the trunk, etc without the key or hitting a switch on the driver's door.

Les I kinda feel bad about this thread now; I hope it hasn't been too off-putting. I'll keep my fingers crossed that your car was made mid-week by the sober guys. They really are great cars to drive, and I absolutely understand what you mean about the "upright" position compared to the Honda. The TDI is a great engine... in fact pretty much all VWs engines are great.

Heck, I'm still collecting VW diesel engines. I have 4 in the garage right now, 2 1.6 TDs and 2 1.9 TDs, hidden away where Mrs Notfarnow can't see them.

Originally Posted by chuckw951

I'm sure you've done your homework on the OM606 engine, but just in case, you should know that sometimes the glowplugs get stuck. I had to have the head pulled on my old 95 E300D to get them out. With that said, the turbo E300D is a great car.

Yes the glow plug issue is a spooky one. This car had all 6 done 3 years ago, none were seized. I've been over at mercedesshop.com reading every thread about om606 glow plugs. Lots of voodoo... run the car till it's hot first vs soak with liquid wrench for 2 days. Use a small impact driver vs use a torque wrench. I've also read up on the threads where they've come up with DIY solutions for removing broken off glow plugs, without pulling the head. Hope I never have to learn that one.

The intake manifold has to come off to do a veggie conversion on the om606, so I'll probably put in new glow plugs then, and replace the troublesome fuel lines & O rings.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

+1. My dad's 95 is running on 5 good glow plugs. One is seized and cannot be removed without pulling the head. I'll send the car to the junkyard before the head comes off.

The W210 chassis may be better, and I hope the engine is good for you.

From what I've been reading, a good Benz shop will have a special tool set for drilling, tapping and pulling seized plugs.
http://www.startekinfo.de/etools/content/tool.jsp?toolno=900%20589%2002%2099%2000
There's a video of it being used on youtube, but I'm not able to find it right now
It's basically the same as on this CDi:


The DIYers have even managed to make pullers:
http://alan.mcreynolds.googlepages.com/howtoremovebrokenglowplugs-mercedesom606

http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=109101&highlight=606+%22glow+plugs%22

[Harold_89_911]

Boy, from the consumers guide, I figured that VW wasn't holding up too well in general but I had no idea it was this bad. I used to have a 84 rabbit diesel and the only thing it needed was a healthy battery and just kept running. No power but very cheap to own. Now we have a 02 Passat wagon with the 1.8T 5spd for the wife and kids and we love that car. I have done the maintenance myself to date and have not had any real problems. Especially like how well the car drives at highway speeds and still stays well above 33mpg. Lot of car for the money but resale value will be poor so hopefully it won't misbehave so we can keep it for a long time. If I had to drive more miles per year (only about 10K now), would have loved to own a VW 1.9TDI car.

So it looks like you found another VW fan on the PP board.

[oldE]

Jake,
The only problem with the door locks (after they upgraded the lock-out spring that used to break in the '80s) is the fact they are outside the door skin in older models. A thaw/freeze cycle would let moisture get in and get solid. Five minutes with the hair dryer on high, (get rid of the plastic cover over the mechanism) and soak the insides with WD40.
Of course I never had that problem on the Chev or Ford trucks parked next to the VWs.

Harold,
The TDI you want is the upcoming 2 liter unit, 16 valves, 50 State compliant, 140hp and 236 ft-lbs of torque and probably somewhere around 55mpg with the 6-speed.
Be patient Grasshopper.

Les

[CurtEgerer]

New TDI - "probably somewhere around 55mpg with the 6-speed."

Yeah, I heard the preliminary EPA rating was 52MPG. So real world, I'll bet you could get 60MPG if you tried hard. That's absolutely incredible.

Anyway, I suspect most the problem VW's in this thread are with old 90's and early 00's models. I've got a combined 425,000+ miles on 3 Jetta TDI's (03,04,05) and have had only routine maintenance on all of them I guess I'm lucky

[notfarnow]

The Accord CTDi is getting 60mpg... it's coming in '09. Wonder if its door locks freeze up.

Les, thanks for the tip with the hair dryer, I've been through that routine. Once eeh car is going, if you aim the heater vents just so I can actually get them thawed. If I apply any heat to the jetta, it will be a lit match.

[the]

Like people who have fun by lighting firecrackers and throwing them in the air at the last second, people who are silly enough to buy VWs eventually get what they deserve!

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by the

Like people who have fun by lighting firecrackers and throwing them in the air at the last second, people who are silly enough to buy VWs eventually get what they deserve!

I used to actually hold the firecracker right at the bottom; maybe that explains something.

Aneeways, it looks like I sold the thing... pending the purchase of the e300d. Best part is he's going to pick it up in Montreal. I just have to drive it up when I go to pick up the new car. So that saves me the cost of the flight..

He's also going to buy a spare 1.6 turbodiesel engine I just picked up a month ago... the profit on that will cover the first two loan payments