Wow, not nice churches you guys have in the USA

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Fishcop

We've got our freaks and cults - but we haven't come close to a David Karesh (sic) or a Waco incident. The average Aussie just doesn't give a rat's arse who's flag you raise, so long as you don't bother your neighbour with it....

I always get a chucke talking to your Mormon preachers that come over here as a part of their training. Generally really great guys, but crikey they they struggle even getting an Aussie to even admit they're home when the doorbell rings, let alone listen to them If you can convert the average suburban Aussie slob into a Mormon, you're one hell of a salesman.

Right. So to what in Oz do you chalk that lack of religious influx?

[skipdup]

Originally Posted by dmoolenaar

Atheists have too much respect for the living. It is, after all, all we got.

I don't know... For the militant atheist... I say hate of Christians trumps respect for the living.

Can no one in Kansas stake the place out and see if it's for real? Do these crazies have a "church"?

- Skip

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by dd74

Right. So to what in Oz do you chalk that lack of religious influx?

Its not unique to Australia. The US is exceptional in this regard amongst developed countries.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by skipdup

I don't know... For the militant atheist... I say hate of Christians trumps respect for the living.

- Skip

A simply ridiculous statement. "Hate" is best left to the religous. Christians are good at it, no doubt, but Islamists seem to have the edge at present.

[skipdup]

Originally Posted by stuartj

A simply ridiculous statement. "Hate" is best left to the religous. Christians are good at it, no doubt, but Islamists seem to have the edge at present.

Your funny.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by skipdup

Your funny.

And your (sic) from Texas. If you were from Tehran, you'd believe in a different god.

Now that IS funny.

[skipdup]

Originally Posted by stuartj

And your (sic) from Texas. If you were from Tehran, you'd believe in a different god.

Now that IS funny.

UR so smart. U got me.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by skipdup

UR so smart. U got me.

My cross to bear.

[Flatbutt1]

The Westboro clowns are mostly Phelps family members. It is true that there are fewer than 200 "parish" members. Obviously they are not a real church and now that the PGR is making appearances at as many soldier's funerals as possible they tend not to show up. On the PGR rides I've been on we've been coached to ignore them if they do show their sorry faces. They engage in some tactics designed to piss off a veteran. Like getting one of the young girls to stand on a flag. That really burns the vets.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Its not unique to Australia. The US is exceptional in this regard amongst developed countries.

Stuart - I meant what in Australia has caused this phenomenon? Australians I've met are not shy to consider theirs and America's histories as similar. One of the main differences, however, is religion and how Australia hasn't as high a regard for it as the U.S. Why is that? Particularly when it is considered Australia and the U.S. emerged, in part, from Britain.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Sorry. Didn't see the Chavez thread - but he is a complete buffoon.

I've been too busy fundraising for Hillary lately. Gotta run.

I was gonna do some of that too but then I decided I'd rather slam my ***** in a car door.

[911Rob]

Originally Posted by stuartj

.......Lest normal people think you a bit weird.

Huh Stu-?
If you're insinuating that YOU are normal; you should go back and read your last 500 posts like I just did........ a total waste of space IMHO.
Take a hike &STFAFM&MP.
-pid

[Fishcop]

Originally Posted by dd74

Stuart - I meant what in Australia has caused this phenomenon? Australians I've met are not shy to consider theirs and America's histories as similar. One of the main differences, however, is religion and how Australia hasn't as high a regard for it as the U.S. Why is that? Particularly when it is considered Australia and the U.S. emerged, in part, from Britain.

Hard to say. Sixty years ago (before WWII) Australia was a sunny version of Mother England - even our accent was slightly British...

Your history with the Pom is a little more acrimonious. You guys were more p!ssed with the Poms than we were and had a big fight about it. We just made rum a currency (seriously - small bottles of rum was the currency) and waited for the Redcoats to come around to our way of thinking

I think because we were so far from any other western civilisation, we got fairly tollerant of religious beliefs - because until recently, it just didn't concern us. I recall my nextdoor neighbours emmigrated from Ireland because they wanted to get married - he was a Catholic, and she a Protestant. I remember being baffled by the idea of a single country at war with itself, basically over religion (simple I know, but I was only 8)

About thirty years ago, Australia really opened up immigration and it became quite melting pot. I know it was the same there, but for whatever reason I argue that Aussies are generally pretty tollerant and manage our zenophobia fairly well.

The real answer is hard to articulate - the average Australian really does not take himself too seriously (his mates soon cut him down to size), our problem is we often don't take anyone else too seriously

I summing I think we distrust religion because so many of our immigrants are here over various 'religious' wars.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by 911Rob

STFAFM&MP...

I think you need another vowel.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Fishcop

Hard to say. Sixty years ago (before WWII) Australia was a sunny version of Mother England - even our accent was slightly British...

Your history with the Pom is a little more acrimonious. You guys were more p!ssed with the Poms than we were and had a big fight about it. We just made rum a currency (seriously - small bottles of rum was the currency) and waited for the Redcoats to come around to our way of thinking

I think because we were so far from any other western civilisation, we got fairly tollerant of religious beliefs - because until recently, it just didn't concern us. I recall my nextdoor neighbours emmigrated from Ireland because they wanted to get married - he was a Catholic, and she a Protestant. I remember being baffled by the idea of a single country at war with itself, basically over religion (simple I know, but I was only 8)

About thirty years ago, Australia really opened up immigration and it became quite melting pot. I know it was the same there, but for whatever reason I argue that Aussies are generally pretty tollerant and manage our zenophobia fairly well.

The real answer is hard to articulate - the average Australian really does not take himself too seriously (his mates soon cut him down to size), our problem is we often don't take anyone else too seriously

I summing I think we distrust religion because so many of our immigrants are here over various 'religious' wars.

Fascinating. I've been reading a lot of Aussie Contemporary Lit. lately. Mostly Coetzee and Carey, and it seems just as you say. No mention of religion - possibly because it's a foregone conclusion that religion is unimportant due to a new and fresh beginning in a new country. There is mention of God, but just conversationally. The melting pot aspect, however, is very heavily realized in the Aussie Literature, which to me suggests the parallels with the U.S.

Possibly the lack of religious interpretation in Australia is due to oppression. Or can it be there's less to be guilty of in being an Australian than being an American?

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by dd74

Fascinating. I've been reading a lot of Aussie Contemporary Lit. lately. Mostly Coetzee and Carey, and it seems just as you say. No mention of religion - possibly because it's a foregone conclusion that religion is unimportant due to a new and fresh beginning in a new country. There is mention of God, but just conversationally. The melting pot aspect, however, is very heavily realized in the Aussie Literature, which to me suggests the parallels with the U.S.

Possibly the lack of religious interpretation in Australia is due to oppression. Or can it be there's less to be guilty of in being an Australian than being an American?

This would make an interesting topic. Perhaps its because the US was settled in part, by pilgrims seeking religous freedom, and Australia was settled in part- and not so long ago- in abject hopelessness by convicts. Imagine what that must have like in the 1790s. 9mths away- it would be like sending people to the darkside of the moon. No going back.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by 911Rob

Huh Stu-?
If you're insinuating that YOU are normal; you should go back and read your last 500 posts like I just did........ a total waste of space IMHO.
Take a hike &STFAFM&MP.
-pid

I am very flattered, Rob. And the wisdom and sheer weight of your argument is compelling.

[Fishcop]

Stuartj highlights just how unseriously we take ourselves Rob, you're getting sucked in; he's loving your reaction

"Possibly the lack of religious interpretation in Australia is due to oppression. Or can it be there's less to be guilty of in being an Australian than being an American?"

Not sure I'm understanding the question... I don't know that we as Australians ever felt oppressed by anyone - certainly not in the last 100 years. Our history is full of very funny anecdotes about our lack of respect for Mother England; though having said that, we threw ourselves at a cliff in Gallipoli, Turkey during WWI for no good reason, just because we were asked to... A defining moment for Aussie and NZ colonials (search for Suvla Bay WWI). I can guarantee that you'll never have to feel guilty about not worshipping a daiety here in Oz.

I really don't know where or how to define where Australia lost it's religion (though plenty of christian zealots have tried). I just know that growing up in the 70s and 80s, religious instruction was made voluntary in state schools, and I grew up in a house hold where mum told me stories of Catholic oppression (she had a bad time at school with the nuns), and my late dad (an athiest) told me that only weak people need religion... I know that that statement will offend some if you. However when I went through my curious stage, he never interfered with me attending several different churches in an effort to satisfy my spiritual curiosity.

Without any help, or persuasion; I have satisfied myself that my life is finite - I get one chance. It's up to me to be good, treat others well and with respect, and go to my grave with a feeling that for a short time, I was here - I loved, and was loved.

I reckon that if there really is a god, he/she'll have sense of humor and take the p!ss out of me when I stand at the Pearly Gates asking for entry... "You were wrong Dude, suck eggs. But come on in, and bring that 6 pack with you." That's a benevolent god

[RoninLB]

American revolution was intellectualized by a religious scholar called Thomas Paine. The underground movement was spread around through the colonies by the local political centers called churches. The "drift" of these centers was fundamentalist in the north east. When the Scot-Irish migrated into the central east the "drift" was less radical. The openness of this group had less of a center core specific church doctrine and hosted over 100 different sects. When the Americas took over New Orleans religion was not a core political leader. The original people were from many varied backgrounds in social context. There is a background difference between churches in the US NE and the US SE. A crude non-truth example is that the use of wine in the NE had religious connotations and in New Orleans wine was a party waiting to happen. The overhang of all this still exists today.

My understanding of Australia is that its founders were tough individualists carving out a life in an unknown inhospitable land with little support from the outside. Religion was not a social political center. Survival needs of its founders formed the political centers.

[911Rob]

Originally Posted by Fishcop

Stuartj highlights just how unseriously we take ourselves Rob, you're getting sucked in; he's loving your reaction

I know John, I know.
The guys an alias poster, no name or location, etc.
99% of his posts are antagonizing & prodding for a debate; mostly anti-religious.
Witty dude, but lacks any kind of wisdom. My guess, he's about 20?

Like to find a thread where him and nostatic go at it? Ha, ha.

Bye, Bye Stu-