Denis, I don't know ya but for today, you're my personal hero. Who doesn't love it when pricks get what they have comin to 'em?SmileWavy

I've been involved in martial arts, in one form or another, pretty much all my life. Based on what Dennis has described, I doubt the outcome would have gone too much differently save for how the pain was served. Every trained person that I know, regardless of martial arts style, would not allow swift movement into their personal space. He would have received a throw, lock, or stunning blow at least. Maybe, just maybe, some would jump back into a balanced defensive posture ready to strike if necessary, but only if the guy was very lucky.

Randy, thanks, you are correct about the typo. Real tough guys do not escalate a verbal disagreement into a physical conflict when $40.00 is involved and they are the manager of a business. That is what I meant. They know that people get hurt in fights and pick their battles a little more wisely.

I didn't bother to read through the entire thread. That said....

Dude your story was awesome. Now don't get me wrong, I feel for you on putting the dog down, I had to have my dog put down, but the bit with the store is priceless. Me and some guys were talking last night about this party, and how this kid kept trying to pick fights with everyone; I said that was stupid, since if you go looking for trouble, eventually someone's gonna give it you. And it's not gonna be anything you want. Which is exactly what happened here. If he raised up on you like that, imagine how many other customers he's done it to. Except you flipped the script on him with that pimp slap. Honestly, reading that made my day better.

Sorry about your dog, Denis.

Both terms indicate criticism, not reinforcement.

Criticism can be positive as well as negative.

I agree completely, but that wasn't my point (see way up above). My point was that if you move back initially and block or evade, then any video camera will capture that. So (if it doesn't get edited), yo will then be free & clear legally.

Some arts, like Wing Chun - and its offspring or derivative Jeet Kun Do - don't really use blocks per se - the strike _is_ the block. Or if you just bam the guy as he moves in, you might face a civil suit or even a criminal indictment. Here, he drives a 996 so we can assume he has deep pockets. The bozo is described as 'ghetto' or semi-ghetto, so he might be looking for a few bucks.

I think you are confusing criticism with critique. you may want to check a dictionary before you offer more "criticism" to someone who was looking for a "critique". And before you say it - "constructive criticism" is different from "criticism".

You were second gussing the man and you know it. I was not.

What is this? Pick on Bob day?:D

I'm just sayin'. ;)

I had a similar thing happen once. I was carrying some baggage over a A-hole who had nearly backed his monster truck over my daughter and a friend's son. I encounter another guy who was almost exactly like the first. Even though the dude had done nothing too me, I was in a heightened state of irritation. The guy started challenging me in a way that pushed me over the limit. I punched him. Not really hard, but enough to get his attention he hit me back, a lot harder enough to mess up my jaw. A cop showed up and the guy started to make the case to the cop to have me arrested since I hit him first. Fortunately for me, the cop did not believe the guy or didn't care. That could have been a really bad day for me.

So I guess my bottom line is this: When you are already worked up you are already geared up to respond even if it isn't the best thing. It probably wasn't the best thing to hit the jerk, but at least it turned out ok. I am very sure this guy was fully expecting to intimidate you and try and make you back off. He gambled and get smacked for it. I would expect that it would not of occurred to this guy to get the police involved. Just the same it could have happened.

Sorry to hear about your dog. Its hard to face having to put the poor guy down. I am sure that this was part of what pushed you to act instead of just not backing down.

I'm glad he "got away" with it, the guy was an ass. Yup, I think backing off would have been the intelligent thing to do (hey, just my opinion). And I gave what seem to me logical reasons why I think so. That's my critique.

It would have surprised me if the only posters on this thread were those who applauded Denis' action. Maybe I should have prefaced my posts with "May I offer some constructive criticism?" That IS what I intended to convey - certainly not self righteous condemnation.

Anyway, like I said, glad things didn't get really ugly. Woulda been tragic to read a post about a Pelican being shot or stabbed to death over an incident which, in the grand scheme of one's life, is sooo trivial.

I don't know what you mean - second guessing (seriously) - so I can't respond to that.

FWIW, I'm really not offended in the least by any of the criticism. As I've stated several times, physical dust-ups in this day and age are to be avoided whenever possible. In starting this thread, I was neither looking for validation or condemnation, just venting really. It had been a horrible day, culminating in the strange happening at the glass shop.

I'm telling you though, if a security tape of it somehow winds up on youtube, it will go platinum. Funny schit.

Denis, don't let the haters get you down. It's not like you kicked his knee out or kicked him in the nads & then put a knee to his face. Sometimes ya gotta let the pimp hand fly!

And next time get a video! :D

I've never hit a guy that didn't want some type of revenge. Lawsuit, property damage, physical harm, etc. Hope he doesn't know your address.

Sounds like the entire place carried a prision vibe - operating on a most basic level.
Not a hell of a lot you can do when lock, stock & barrel is at that level.

Hindsight would make ya stop before paying, and walk out. Easy to say though, eh? ;-)

Then I should go back there and start running the place. I monkey-slapped the shot-caller, and he didn't fight back. :)

interesting to see what people think a "martial artist" would have/should have done in that situation. Here's my take, having studied a couple different Chinese styles throughout my life. I'm reminded of the words of my San Soo sifu:

When a confrontation looms, first you try to talk your way out of it. If that doesn't work you walk away from it. If that doesn't work you run away from it. If that doesn't work, you end it. Quickly.

And my Li style sifu:

A martial artist talks his way *out* of fights, not into them.

imho a "true" martial artist would not have needed to strike or adopt a defensive posture. Because it would have never gotten to that point. But like I said, Denis is Irish ;)

Sorry, but that is a fantasy. I've heard you say it before, and you can believe what you choose, but I've studied MA as well and the idea that you can always just be some kind of Dalai Lama spreading good vibes everywhere you go therefore neutralising violent people or that you will always have the option and luxury of time to "talk your way out of it" is not reality in my experience.

Sure, it's better not to get into fights or hit people. We've covered that pretty well. I am not going to back down from every ass hole that ever crosses my path, and if I get stabbed, that's life. I will not live on my knees. Also, every "fight" does not require fighting to maim or kill someone, unless you are very afraid of physical conflict and/or supremely unconfident in your martial skills. In the majority of my fights, the other side gave up immediately or very soon when confronted with blunt force and a non-bending opponent. But not always. YMMV.

Part of the difference is that some of us grew up in cultures or with people who did not think of fighting as some traumatic, end-of-the-world event, but rather a normal (hopefully occasional) part of being a guy.

46 years old and *never* have hit anyone in anger. Period. And have been in some sketchy situations.

I haven't really spent much time on my knees, either. Just depends I guess. But I find that you get what you attract...