I agree it is good policy, but sometimes fantasy.

Anyway, for some fun, get several big friends with strong Italian accents to dress up in dark suits, load up a concealed video cam, and head on over. Everybody walk in and have the biggest friend with the strongest accent say:
"I hear you got in my friend's face the other day."

Now, that will make for some fun Youtube...

so if it is "fantasy", could some of you guys give me instances where you felt is was necessary to smack somebody? I'm sorry, but Denis' incident imho doesn't warrant it. I can imagine some and I've been close (and have blocked a punch or two and restrained someone), but it would be interesting to hear what exactly led up to a physical confrontation that was deemed "necessary."

"Yup, I think backing off would have been the intelligent thing to do (hey, just my opinion). "

That is text book second guessing.

I'm all for avoiding conflict. I am not for taking a beating from a hothead. I don't see where Denis could have avoided this. It went from discussion to "in his face" in an instant. The man attacked - he reacted. As it should be.

Sounds to me like Denis chose option 4 from your earlier post - ended it quickly. He also did it in a way that the man's pride was more stung than anything else, so job well done imo.

To answer your question above I can simply refer to my son's Tae Kwon Do class. He has been instructed that if an attacker rushes into his space, as Denis said this man did, he has a number of options depending on the man's position, i.e. if he's armed, grabs your wrists, etc., etc.. Many of the responses (to the man's attack) would have been a wrist lock taking him to the ground. My son has been trained, by a Grand Master from Korea (barely speaks English), to deliver a blow to the man's face after he has been taken down - ending the conflict decisively.

Naturally, a great deal of time is spent on conflict avoidance. However, Denis has made this abundantly clear - it went from discussion to attack. It happens. I fail to understand why this is so difficult to comprehend. You can't avoid every fight that comes your way. If you haven't had to get physical with someone - huzzah! for you. You're fortunate.

+1...ad nauseum.

Ad nauseum is right! This is probably going waaaay farther than Denis thought it would! :)

I'll add that I have "avoided" far more times than "engaged" - even to the point of looking like a real chicken*****. Like I care. People that know me, know me - the rest........

at the risk of ad nauseum, I didn't ask about hypotheticals. People said my approach was "fantasy" so I wondered about ACTUAL circumstances where people have taken a swing at another person - ie what let up to the confrontation.

O.k. "To criticize or correct after an outcome is known." I did. And clearly defined why, as an opinion (opinions run rampant here). People differ - I'm not one to throw the first punch, others are.

By the way, when someone threatenly invades your personal space and gets in your face like that ass hole did to Denis, it's definitely assault. What Denis did was definitely commit battery. There's a big difference, I think misdemeaner vs felony. If the ass hole were to drag him into a court of law I'd be real concerned that the judge would find against him.

But then again, I've got a lot to lose and there's no ass hole getting in my face whose worth that risk to me.

Whole different story if someone swings on me first though. I definitely do believe in self defense.

What shocks me the most about this is that after 8 pages no one has recognized the irony that Denis won't be able to look himself in the mirror in the morning. ;)

On the general topic of conflict, fight, flight, avoidance, whatever, I have a hard time second guessing a man. Having only been in one adult fistfight (of which I was the clear loser) I can say it is a surreal experience and the time between the realisation that "we're gonna fight" and the end of said fight is measured in seconds. It ain't the last scene of Lethal Weapon.

Chesty Puller would have left more than a bruised ego!

Bottom line: The guy needed to be put in check, and Denis obliged.

By doing so, he probably reset this guys A-hole meter, and he'll be less arrogant/condescending/imposing to his fellow human beings, even if it's only temporary (until someone gives him his next "tune-up"). It's amazing how much humility and introspection a mild lashing can bring, especially to someone who has gotten away with acting like an a-hole/bully for a long period of time.

So, Denis, from a fellow "American of Irish Descent", sounds like you let the guy off easy. :)

Truly sorry about your Dog Denis.

Randy, Eric, gotta be a Marine to get that one, its not like he was as well known to the masses as Patton. And there was no need for the masses to know who Chesty was, they'd just get in the way and eff everything up anyway! Semper Fi. I was in a few fights when I was younger, but never started one, as in threw the first punch. I probably instigated one or two with my mouth though.

Hmm, so you hit em when you're happy?:D

I've got a number of fight stories I could tell ya nostatic.
It's really late though and I'm just thumbing through to catch up before hitting the sheets.

A quick one before bed:
The worst beating I ever took; good place to start.
I went to a buddies place for a party. Great guy, great evening.
After the bars closed a few more people showed up; everyone was drinking.
The house was packed about 1 or 2 AM
I came into the living room and found a strange guy standing on my buddies couch with his shoes on. He wasn't a very big guy at all. I told him I was a friend of the home owners and there was a no shoes rule, especially on the couch. Asked him to take the shoes off. He said to me F.U. in so many words. So I grabbed his arm and threw him out the front door and told him he wasn't welcome here anymore.

About 5 mins later 3 guys man handle me right off the floor and take me out the same front door. Buddy tells me that his buddy is gonna kick my ass for being such a punk. Buddy starts wacking me, so I wack him back. It wasn't anything major, just a scuffle of punches. I felt my gold chain (GF gift) break and fall off. So first chance I got, I broke away and picked it up. Buddy had already backed off thinking I'd had enough. I didn't know it, but he was taking it easy on me.

After pocketing my chain, he had his back to me and I grabbed his shoulder and said where you going? He muttered something about me not having enough and all of a sudden this bolt of lightning comes at me. He literally kicks my butt until I drop, then he lays the boots to me, in the head. I took a bad ***** kicking that night. Two black eyes, busted up face, wasn't pretty at all.

Guy was some local tough guy. I thought about searching him out and going for round 2, but he ended up in jail before I got better; good thing for me.

I was walking out of the local movie theater after a late movie-date with some friends of mine. We parted ways, and I began walking to my car, when I noticed two youngish black guys following me. The situation was such that there was a long fence on my left, a busy road in front of me, and a building right next to the road to my right. Not a whole lot of options for where to go. So I spend up my pace a bit, thinking if I could get *to*, or *in* the road, I'd be in a better position. Witnesses and all that. Seems like they figured that out, too, since after I started walking faster, they ran up on me pretty quickly. Never made it to the street.

Now I'm pushed up against the fence; it's one smaller guy, maybe a little bigger than I, and a large guy, much larger than I. I'm not sure what they were after, because they never said anything about money. The smaller guy asked a few times if I knew where the bus stop was, and I nodded in the direction of it. It was obvious, they walked right past it, and in any event, I saw them get out of a car. I tried to keep myself inching along the fence line until I could get a break and dip-set, but the smaller guy noticed and started going on about why was I scared, is it a black thing, I'm a racist, blah blah. His buddy seems calm.

Next thing I know I take a shot across the head. Nothing major, but I stumbled back up against the fence, and they moved in so I can't go anywhere. By this time I figured to just give em what they were lookin' for, and I punched the smaller guy, and we started going at it. He managed to trip me, which tactically was bad for me, and then kicked me in the ribs, although I manged to roll with it, get on my feet quickly and pop him a good one in the nose. He reeled back and covered his face, and I got the **** out of there. A cop drove by while I was running and didn't even brake.

I'd say it was a pretty unavoidable situation...

Darisc you are correct with the first part of your sentence. The a-hole did commit an attempted assault. You are wrong in the second part. What Denis did is called self-defense.

In college a couple buddies and I threw a party.
We actually rented a City pool from the City of Edmonton.
Themed it "Twisted by the Pool"; sold tickets and booze.
Girls got in for free ........ fun college days.

During the pool party, someone came in with a bottle, dropped it and it broke.
Pool staff freaked out as there was suppose to be no glass.
The guy was acting like an idiot and a couple of my large friends were trying to calm him down. When I walked up to the situation I explained to the guy that it was my party and we were all there for a good time, he just got worse, threatening to fight us. I then asked him to leave. He just carried on. He had a couple buddies with him, but they just looked on.

Then I threatened him and told him if him and his friends didn't leave I'd have to kick the ***** out of him. He wasn't responding well to that, so I kicked his feet from under him and pushed him in the chest. He landed on his ass. Then I said, get up and come outside with me, I'm gonna kick your butt.

I turned and walked outside. He actually followed me. I threw the first punch & more until he fell to the ground. I picked him up by the back of his collar and punched him several times in the face, there was blood squirting and I stopped, left him there for his buddies to take home.

Only fight I ever had in College, word got around and no one ever challenged me. We threw lots of parties and never another incident. I never heard or saw that guy again?

very sorry about youre dog,way to stick it to him though,it seems like people think that because we own the cars we do we are inferior and can be taken advantage of ,way to keep the pimp hand strong though

NOT being judgemental, just questioning:

I'm not a lawyer and a lot of this is nebulous to me. Like, what is an "attempted" assault? How does it differ from an "actual" assault? Does an assault imply that a blow was thrown but didn't land? If it landed, isn't that assault and battery"?

My understanding is that in a case of self defense one must prove one was in emanant danger. Proving that in court strikes me as possibly being difficult or impossible to do in Denis' case.

If emanant danger can't be proven, wouldn't having struck and landing a blow be considered battery?

The below definitions are helpful to this layman but seem to leave a lot of room for courtroom arguement in Denis' case - http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cvus/definitions.htm:

Assault - An unlawful physical attack or threat of attack. Assaults may be classified as aggravated or simple. Rape, attempted rape, and sexual assaults are excluded from this category, as well as robbery and attempted robbery. The severity of assaults ranges from minor threat to incidents which are nearly fatal.

Aggravated assault - Attack or attempted attack with a weapon, regardless of whether or not an injury occurred and attack without a weapon when serious injury results.

Simple assault - Attack without a weapon resulting either in no injury, minor injury (for example, bruises, black eyes, cuts, scratches or swelling) or in undetermined injury requiring less than 2 days of hospitalization. Also includes attempted assault without a weapon.

paterson eastside high school 1966 , racial tension very high, I'm very small compared to others. Coupla bgger guys try to go thru my pockets forcefully. I'm a wrestler so able to move emn off of me but that pissed them off and camer backat me. the first one got a hand into my pocket so I pinned his hand in there ans punched him in the neck jusy under his left ear,real hard,twice, that made him dizzy enough to kick to the ground. I threw a brick at the other one. Then ran. ran far,ran fast