Luck of the Irish - New Winchester M 71

[Jeff Higgins]

Here I was just the other day, in the thread about lever guns, going on about how I ought to make my way over to my buddy's gun shop and snag one of the new Miroku Model '71's that had been languishing on his rack for the last couple of years. Well today I did just that. Only to find out he had finally sold it about a month ago. Rats. Or so I thought...

Turns out it had already made its way back. Seems the guy who bought it had no idea what he was getting into, as far as the care and feeding of the Model 71, with its unique .348 Winchester chambering. He was well and truly discouraged when it came time to find brass and bullets. So he brought it back to sell on consignment.

This rifle was just shy of $1,500 when I was looking at it new. I just walked out with it today, plus RCBS loading dies and a really nice leather/nylon Boyd's soft case, for $950. He had also mounted the very same Williams receiver sight that I would have added myself, and some weird "firesight" fiber optic front (that I will likely replace).

So, talk about positive reinforcement of one of my worst habits - procrastination. I kept putting off buying this thing, and wound up really making out in the end. And I know right where to get brass, jacketed bullets, and a bullet mold - my old friend Dave Gullo at Buffalo Arms over in Idaho keeps all of this stuff in stock.

Sometimes we get to win one...

[BeyGon]

nice score

[Tobra]

Lovely piece

[vash]

lever guns do nothing for me..but that is damn nice!!

i did love them as a kid watching old blk/wht reruns of the RIFLEMAN. hehe.

[Bill Douglas]

The action is like silk.

[Jeff Higgins]

Wow, I just got off the phone with Buffalo Arms. It seems their supply of .348 brass has dried up, and the company that was making it is out of business. Hornady is the only manufacturer that even lists it, but it shows "out of stock" with them. I've played this game with Hornady before, on some other oddball stuff. They could make it tomorrow. They could not make any for a couple of years. They don't even know.

So, I checked some other tried and true sources for the weird stuff I like to shoot. Nothing. Lots of "if you find any, let me know". So I finally went to that place I so very much hate to go - Gun Broker. Turns out two guys had new in box, unfired Winchester brass with "buy it now" prices. So I did. Ouch - $200 for 60 pieces.

Granted, I've paid a lot more for some really weird calibers, but this still hurts. Especially since this caliber is known for its short brass life, like just a few firings with full power loads before it stretches enough to render it dangerous to use. Looks like this will be a reduced load, cast bullet shooter, at least until Hornady comes through. Good thing Buffalo Arms had a suitable mold.

[JTO]

Like others have said Jeff; cool rifle. I’ve always wanted one too since my time in Alaska.
Anyway , I like to shoot my guns and would hate to have something I couldn’t really enjoy due to lack of brass. I thought I saw some loaded Winchester 348 on one of the ammo sites. I assume you checked there?
Troy

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by vash

lever guns do nothing for me..but that is damn nice!!

i did love them as a kid watching old blk/wht reruns of the RIFLEMAN. hehe.

But... STEVE!

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Wow, I just got off the phone with Buffalo Arms. It seems their supply of .348 brass has dried up, and the company that was making it is out of business.

I'm not anywhere near the firearm aficionado you are but can you load your own .348?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I'm not anywhere near the firearm aficionado you are but can you load your own .348?

Absolutely. I already have loading dies (they came with the rifle), and now have a bullet mold for a 250 grain flat point on the way. Once the brass arrives, I'll be able to load some up and start working up a load. This is the fun part for me - getting to "know" a new rifle, discovering its preferences, and finding that optimum load. I'm looking forward to getting started with this one.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

But... STEVE!

Fun fact:

The Mare's Leg weapon carried by Josh Randall (Steve McQueen) is a cut down Winchester model 1892 carbine in 44-40 caliber, but the bullets in his cartridge belt are 45-70 caliber rounds used in the larger, more powerful rifles of the day. The producers wanted to use the 45-70s because they were more visually impressive than the relatively small, pistol sized rounds actually used in the 1892 carbine. The use of the 1892 carbine is itself an anachronism as the series is set in the 1870s.

[HardDrive]

Take some of that money you saved, and buy some grass seed

I kid, I kid.....

[Jeff Higgins]

Well, I got her out to the range today. I scored 110 pieces of new, unfired Winchester brass off Gunbroker (as noted above), and it finally arrived last Monday. Got it all sized, trimmed, and loaded with some starting loads with IMR 4895 and 4350 with the Hornady 200 grain bullet.

The IMR 4350 loads showed the most promise as far as accuracy and velocity. The top powder charges topped 2,500 fps with no pressure signs and honest 2 MOA accuracy for five shot groups. Not bad for a peep sighted lever gun in a pretty serious hunting caliber.

The trigger kind of sucks, but I can live with it. The action needs some break-in time, or possibly disassembly and some polishing. My Marlins all have better triggers and smoother actions, but then again, I've worked them all over to get there. I think this Winchester is better than they were out of the box, so it really has some potential. Lastly, recoil is pretty darn mild, which is getting to be important to me as I get older. I think I'm going to like this rifle.

[tevake]

Jeff, it interesting to hear about the steps of getting the correct ammo sorted for a new spoon.
I have a cousin that is similarly into loading his ammo and sorting the best load, weight of bullets etc. that's realy coming to understand the charicter of a new spoon.

Cheers Richard

[Jeff Higgins]

Update...

Well, I have plowed my way through my initial supply of 200 grain Hornady flat points, so I figured I would just order some more. Wrong. In the time since my first order, every one of the "usual suspects" of on-line reloading suppliers has gone "out of stock, no back order". It turns out these were limited production and are now gone. Or so they said... I found three more boxes at some really niche type reloading suppliers. That's it, that's all, until Hornady makes another run. It could be years. They do make their new-fangled "flex tip" bullet in their "LeveRevolution" line, but I'm into more traditional stuff for this rifle. I might just have to "bite the bullet" and get some of these, though, before there is nothing left at all. Barnes does make their traditional soft points in this caliber but, my god, they may as well be gold jacketed for what they want for them.

On the bright side, I was on the waiting list for brass from Quality Cartridge Company, and they came through. I asked for as much as they could send me, but they held me to 100 pieces. Oh well - that makes for 210 pieces for now. That should keep me going for awhile.

On the cast bullet front, I still don't have anything more than a mold for a 250 grain bullet. No sizing die, no neck expander to enable seating cast bullets without shaving lead on the case mouth. Huntington Die Specialties shows that they might have both. I'll call them again tomorrow to see.

So, after playing with this rifle pretty extensively for the last month, I have to say I'm impressed. Both with the rifle and with the caliber. It matches .30-'06 velocities with 200 grain bullets, making it an honest "long range" levergun. I now have it zeroed at 200 yards, and it is only a couple of inches high at 100. That, and it is actually accurate enough to be useful at extended ranges.

I guess I don't fully understand why this combination has not made a comeback. Not that it will ever be hugely popular, but with today's interest in all things retro, I wish it would get more attention. It deserves to.

[Jeff Higgins]

Another update...

Well, the world is now out of 200 grain Hornady flat points. I've squirreled away a few boxes, but they are now "out of stock" at all of the reloading component suppliers. So, just to cover my bases, I ordered those "LeveRevolution" 200 grain flex tips.

The loading data appears the same as for any other 200 grain bullet. I'm a bit suspicious - the shank is longer and the nose is shorter, putting more bullet in the neck of the case. This is normally a pretty sure way to raise pressures. It looks, however, like there is going to necessarily be a pretty long jump before they engage the rifling, so maybe that serves to offset how much bullet is in the case and thereby lowers pressures. We'll see. I'm starting with a pretty moderate load of IMR 4350. These sure look weird, for a round that is supposed to be safe in tubular magazines. Goes against everything I've learned about this.

[masraum]

Interesting thread. Thanks for the update.

[RSBob]

Reminds me of the TV show, The Rifleman staring Chuck Conners and many a John Wayne flick.

[Jeff Higgins]

Another update:

My rifle does not like the Hornady flex tips one little bit. I'll play with them some more, but it's not looking good. Several different charges with each of three different powders and the best barely stay in a 6" bull at 100 yards. In sharp contrast, their flat points are averaging about 2" for five shots at 100 yards with the same variety of powders and range of charges.

I have to think it is the exceedingly long jump into the rifling required by the shape of the ogive. Any magazine rifle is constrained to an overall cartridge length that will fit in the magazine (with box magazines anyway, not tube magazines) and feed (which is the mechanical constraint in a lever gun). On top of that, anything in a tube magazine has to be crimped, so you are stuck with whatever OAL is provided by the location of the crimp groove. It's pretty apparent from the photo above just how quickly the flex tip bullet tapers into its ogive, and how far it must jump compared to the traditional flat point.

Oh well. No big deal. At the ranges this rifle is meant to be used, there is very little real difference in trajectory or performance between these two shapes. That, and Hornady just ran another batch of the flat points and I ordered a bunch more, so I'm sitting pretty with those anyway.