Porsche 16 cyl. engine. - Page 2

WI wide body · 02-22-2008, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtw

A couple I snapped:

Yeah, I like the angle of that last one and it is clear.

dtw · 02-22-2008, 08:56 PM

tchanson · 02-22-2008, 09:00 PM

It definitely was a non-runner.

A few photos that I took of the Deutsche Rat motor at RRIII:

Tim

tchanson · 02-22-2008, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

I've seen pics of a 16-cylinder engine on a stand, I think from the factory. Perhaps there are two in existance?.

Never heard of two of these, but between Mezger and Piech's efforts, who knows?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

It's basically two 908 engines joined by a common crankshaft.

I loved the comments at RRIII, whether true or not, that both Seppi and later Donohue could feel the rear 8 cylinders fire up before the front 8....

Tim

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

I've seen pics of a 16-cylinder engine on a stand, I think from the factory. Perhaps there are two in existance?

It's basically two 908 engines joined by a common crankshaft.

-Wayne

looks like they prettied the car up these days, compared to when they actually built it and were testing with it...
it looks to clean now compared to then

sand_man · 02-23-2008, 03:18 AM

So I think when you go to hell, Beelzebub gives you this exact engine and demands that you time the cams!!! If you succeed, then they give the accordion to play...

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by sand_man

So I think when you go to hell, Beelzebub gives you this exact engine and demands that you time the cams!!! If you succeed, then they give the accordion to play...

i don't see why it would be more difficult then say a DOHC V8 or V12

2 cam's per cyllinderbank, 1 crank
it doesn't really matter if you have 2 cyllinders per cam or 8.. the actual timing works identical, same amount of effort required... at least that's what i'm thinking, i've never done a F-16 cam timing job myself

javadog · 02-23-2008, 04:06 AM

For what it's worth, these were not small engines as some people have suggested. Their displacement was greater than the largest of the flat 12's that Porsche built. Porsche even went so far as to play with the image of the 16 cylinder in the comparison photo of the 16 and the 12, to make the 16 look smaller. They had designed it to have several possible displacements from 6.0 to 7.2 litres, although they didn't build all the variations after testing the first engine on the dyno and in the car. Basically, they were just using the different cylinders developed for the 12 cylinder to change the size. The 12 started out as a 4.5L and evolved into a 5.4L. Add 4 more cylinders and you can see how they got to the displacements they chose.

There is a second engine assembled and displayed in the factory museum. The car was lengthened to accomodate the larger engine and nobody liked the way it handled, so it was shelved. The turbo 12s made a lot more horsepower anyway, once they figured out the fueling problems they had initially.

JR

artplumber · 02-23-2008, 08:59 AM

anyone know if the cooling fan was the same size for the 12 and 16? I'm just wondering, how much thermal "reserve" was built into these engines for the horses they made (vs a high hp street engine for example...) Did they accept higher temps, because of frequent rebuilds? OK maybe this is a tech question...

rick-l · 02-23-2008, 09:14 AM

Is this that engine? I had no idea what it was. This is from the Porsche museum the first part of December.

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by artplumber

anyone know if the cooling fan was the same size for the 12 and 16? I'm just wondering, how much thermal "reserve" was built into these engines for the horses they made (vs a high hp street engine for example...) Did they accept higher temps, because of frequent rebuilds? OK maybe this is a tech question...

the horizontal fan is already so much more efficient then the vertical one
i think it just did the trick

if you look at how much power they got out of a 935, or the 917/30
also with the horizontal fan.. i think that if the fan was good for flat12 andflat12Turbo , as long as they had plenty of oil and oil coolers ...

Jim Garfield · 02-23-2008, 09:53 AM

It's not currently a runner, but I talked to someone from the Museum at RRIII and she said that it is on the list of things to do once they move.

javadog · 02-23-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-l

Is this that engine? I had no idea what it was. This is from the Porsche museum the first part of December.

Yes. Not the same exact engine that's in the car exhibited at Daytona, but one just like it. It's been in the museum for a long time.

JR

daepp · 02-25-2008, 06:57 AM

Are they magnesium cases?

javadog · 02-25-2008, 07:11 AM

Most likely. That's what they look like and that's also what the 12 cylinder engines had.

JR

kach22i · kach22i's Garage

Another great pano cover.

Jim Garfield · 02-25-2008, 01:48 PM

Yes, Mg case.

daepp · 02-25-2008, 02:06 PM

Do you think there are still some good-ol-boys around the Porsche shops that have both ingenuity, the curiosity and the permission to dream up new marvels like they did when they came up with this 16 cyl. masterpiece?

Jim Garfield · 02-25-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daepp

Do you think there are still some good-ol-boys around the Porsche shops that have both ingenuity, the curiosity and the permission to dream up new marvels like they did when they came up with this 16 cyl. masterpiece?

I'm sure that they have the skill and knowledge to do it, but they don't have Ferdinand Piech running the motorsport program. At the time the 16 cyl was very under the radar - Ferry Porsche didn't even know that it was being developed. I think that once the family members had to leave the company the possibility of secret "skunk works" projects happening was zero. The company had to become more bureaucratic, and that effectively eliminated the possibility of a "wild card " genius like Piech being able to twist arms and get things done. Although Norbert Singer did a pretty good job with the constraints that he had.

javadog · 02-25-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Garfield

I think that once the family members had to leave the company the possibility of secret "skunk works" projects happening was zero. The company had to become more bureaucratic, and that effectively eliminated the possibility of a "wild card " genius like Piech being able to twist arms and get things done. Although Norbert Singer did a pretty good job with the constraints that he had.

Bott also built a few things that stretched the rules a bit. He was also good at burying costs, to hide things that weren't yet approved...

I'm sure they have a bunch of quality engineers but I think just about all of the good guys are gone. Sad, in a way...

JR