Immortality

[kstar]

What about immortality?

I thought this subject was different enough from Markus's Afterlife thread to warrant a new thread.

We already have "atomic immortality" which is good for something.

What about "quantum immortality" or "artificial immortality"?

Or the immortality of the HeLa cells ( see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeLa ) or even bacteria?

I think us humans may figure out a way to actually replicate the human brain to the neuron level. Jeff Hawkins, founder of Palm, has started a company to do just that. Maybe with this technology, one's own brain could be replicated or transferred to an artificial brain.



There are also folks working on keeping the human body alive for a very long time, and perhaps forever, barring accidental death! Here's a link to the Methuselah Foundation: http://www.methuselahfoundation.org/

I think there is a good chance there will be a way to effectively prolong human life, perhaps for a very long time. My Daughter's joke is that I will die the day before such a breakthrough is made. Ha!


Here's some stuff from the Immortality Wiki to stimulate thought:

Definitions

(See also 'Concepts of immortality', below.)
Spiritual afterlife - The belief in the immortal soul is a dogma of Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism. This belief is related to the philosophy of dualism.

Immortality through fame - Others believe that they can achieve immortality through the achievements that they leave behind. This view of immortality places value on how one will be remembered by generations to come. His or her good works 'live on' in the world. This view of immortality is embraced in many religious and humanistic philosophies.[citation needed] In Homer's Iliad, Achilles' main motive for fighting in the Trojan War is recognition and everlasting fame.

Philosophic immortality. This idea holds that metaphysical universals and abstract phenomena exist and can at least be partially interacted with by human beings. If an abstract phenomenon might have at least a partially eternal existence, then a person might obtain at least a transitory level of immortality by interacting with it.

Genetic immortality. This view of immortality concentrates on leaving offspring, or immortality via evolution, which is curiously similar to Richard Dawkins' theory of the selfish gene ("you never really quite die; as long as there is some of your genetic material left behind in this world").

Magically immortal - Many European and Chinese alchemists were among such people. The depiction in literature of Gilgamesh was one such as this and an entire cycle, or cycles of Arthurian legend exist in the British Isles, including the Knights of the Round Table going in search for the Holy grail; supposedly, the chalice from which Jesus and his disciples drank at the Last Supper. It may also be taken to mean being invincible or unable to be killed.

Never dying - Some believe life extension technologies will lead to rejuvenation. Some believe cryonics will allow the dead to be revived in a medically advanced future.

Atomic immortality - Your mind ceases with death. Your body decomposes. While "you" cease to exist in a living person sense, your body will be recycled until the end of the universe.

Quantum immortality - In the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, the wavefunction never collapses, and thus all possible outcomes of a quantum event exist simultaneously, with each event apparently spawning an entirely new universe in which a single possible outcome exists. In this physical theory, one could hypothetically live forever as there might exist a string of possible quantum outcomes in which one never dies. This theory of quantum immortality, however, is not widely regarded by the scientific community as being a verifiable or even necessarily correct offshoot of the many worlds interpretation, which itself exists as one possible interpretation of quantum mechanics among many.

Artificial immortality - This represents the concept of transferring one's consciousness from the brain to an alternative media providing the same functionality as the brain. Such a media may be biological or non-biological. The transference may be gradual (e.g. through cognitive prostheses) or immediate (e.g. through a brain scan).

Relativistic immortality - Any person travelling to the stars and back at a significant fraction of the speed of light, or residing in an especially strong gravity well, would be able to invoke the twin paradox. An outside observer would notice the affected person ageing at a much slower rate than the observer.


[edit]Immortal species

See also List of long-living organisms

Turritopsis nutricula jellyfish — After becoming a sexually mature adult, the jellyfish Turritopsis nutricula can transform itself back into a child (the polyp stage) using the cell conversion process of transdifferentiation. The Turritopsis nutricula repeats this cycle, meaning that it may have an indefinite lifespan, though it can be killed.[1]

Bacteria (as a colony) — Although they can be killed by antibiotics, radiation, or starvation, bacteria, as a colony, appear to never age. Bacteria reproduce through cell division. A parent bacterium splits itself into two identical daughter cells. These daughter cells then split themselves in half. This process repeats, thus making the bacterium colony essentially immortal. However, a bacterium, as an individual, is mortal since it “dies” when it divides in half.
Recent research, however, suggests that even bacteria as a colony may eventually die since each succeeding generation is slightly smaller, weaker, and more likely to die than the previous.[2]

Bristlecone Pines are speculated to be potentially immortal, but are susceptible to destruction by lighting, disease, and other causes. The oldest known living specimen is over 4800 years old.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortality

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Best,

Kurt

[sammyg2]

People should not be immortal.
Dying is part of the natural cycle.
I often question if it is ethical for the medical world to try so hard and spend so much money trying to temporarily postpone an inevitable death.

People have been brainwashed to think that any death is a tragedy and all deaths should be prevented. BS.
We all die and that is a good thing.

[kstar]

Sammy:

When my Dad's Mom passed away many years ago, I remember being in the emergency room as they kept trying to keep her alive. She was well into her eighties and her body was just shutting down.

I remember what a difficult time it was and also the futility of the actions of the doctors. It was an unexpected feeling that I won't soon forget.

Regarding immortality, if new "treatments" or methods are developed that prolong life or approach the concept of immortality, folks should be allowed to try them out. Of course, not everyone will believe it is right!

Best,

Kurt

[livi]

This is a very interesting topic. Perhaps not so much from a theoretical living for ever perspective, but the possibilities of at least staying strong and healthy at old age. Particularly here in Sweden. We pay so much tax during our working age, but have a decent retirement check. I would really like to live to a hundred years so I can collect on all that money I have been 'robbed' off.

[island911]

First our doctors need to cure sleeping. I mean, what good is sleeping? It's just wrong, and a waste of time.

When will everyone realize that man is above and outside of nature and he Controls nature -not the other way around?

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

Sammy:

When my Dad's Mom passed away many years ago, I remember being in the emergency room as they kept trying to keep her alive. She was well into her eighties and her body was just shutting down.

I remember what a difficult time it was and also the futility of the actions of the doctors. It was an unexpected feeling that I won't soon forget.

Regarding immortality, if new "treatments" or methods are developed that prolong life or approach the concept of immortality, folks should be allowed to try them out. Of course, not everyone will believe it is right!

Best,

Kurt

If they do come up with a "death cure" that can make people immortal, I would refuse it. If others wanted to take it I wouldn't approve but I wouldn't do anything to try and prevent it.
It's their decision to do what they want just as it is mine.

[livi]

Originally Posted by island911

First our doctors need to cure sleeping. I mean, what good is sleeping? It's just wrong, and a waste of time.

When will everyone realize that man is above and outside of nature and he Controls nature -not the other way around?

Yes, sleeping seems like a monumental waste of time. But I suppose, without sleeping we would die worn out at about 15 years old. I think it all has something to do with evolution..

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I've wondered about the ability to "download" one's brain pattern and thereby their memories and "consciousness" of sorts into a computer, thereby attaining virtual immortality. I actually considered writing a SciFi novel on this at one point, but abandoned the idea (too busy). Anyway I think the day will come when there is sufficient understanding of the brain's wiring, and sufficiently large computer storage to do this. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but eventually perhaps.

For now though, I find it more natural and more honest to believe solely in us having only whatever time we're given here on earth to compose our thoughts and actions. I don't believe we live on other than as part of a cycle or series of natural processes for our constituent atoms, the energy transformations we perform, etc.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by island911

First our doctors need to cure sleeping. I mean, what good is sleeping? It's just wrong, and a waste of time.

When will everyone realize that man is above and outside of nature and he Controls nature -not the other way around?

It seems like "our" whole existence has been about taming and/or trying to control nature to some degree.

We have antibiotics and such medicines and also gene based treatments. We've gone from living in caves to climate controlled structures and we have some very small improvements at making rain. Nothing significant in controlling weather even on a local scale, but our understanding is increasing.

There are folks working on creating synthetic life and we harness energy from nature to create power.

I don't think these paths to controlling nature and making the world more hospitable will end. I don't mean to say that all of the above is good, but we can judge for ourselves what has been successful and what has failed to date.

I see humanity continuing to increase life spans, heal diseases and make faster and more efficient computing machines and artificial life forms. My outlook is generally positive but acknowledge the fact that us humans could also seriously frack things up.

Go back only 100 years and take at look at life on Earth then; we've made some excellent progress, IMO, and we're only getting started.

FWIW.

Best,

Kurt

[island911]

Perhaps, after man figures out how to make an Apple computer print reasonably well, we can tackle these bigger issues.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by island911

Perhaps, after man figures out how to make an Apple computer print reasonably well, we can tackle these bigger issues.

Let's start with the easy stuff first.

Best,

Kurt

[island911]

Vista printers?

[old man neri]

Most people that dream of immortality can't even find something to do on a rainy Saturday afternoon.

[trekkor]

First of all, Kurt. Stop changing your avatar. I can't keep track of you!!

Let me ask this:
What causes us to go from young, healthy, pain free and full of energy to 'over the hill', so to speak?

When we are 25-30 we don't think about dying at all.
When our bodies start to break down we start to realize death is approaching.

A long time friend if mine is about to die. His body is near useless.
His mind is as a young man's.

No one knows why at some point the body 'turns the corner'. Scientifically speaking , of course.

Good subject. I've learned some answers.


We were designed to live forever.


KT

[sjf911]

We are already essentially immortal. Each one of us represents an existence that is an unbroken chain of life dating back 3.5+ billion years. Part of us has essentially been alive that long. Our children and their descendants carry on that burden of propagating "our" life as long as the earth is habitable (unless we migrate to the planets/stars).

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by trekkor

First of all, Kurt. Stop changing your avatar. I can't keep track of you!!


KT

HAL 9000, very appropriate.

[island911]

Why not the 'Spinning beachball of death" ?

speaking of... what if you were immortal, but had to endure the spinning beachball of death into eternity? ...no reset button?

[kstar]

Is Island the new Mule?

Best,

Kurt

[strupgolf]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

People should not be immortal.
Dying is part of the natural cycle.
I often question if it is ethical for the medical world to try so hard and spend so much money trying to temporarily postpone an inevitable death.

People have been brainwashed to think that any death is a tragedy and all deaths should be prevented. BS.
We all die and that is a good thing.

I dont agree to a point. Science will be so far advanced in 50 or 100 years that we today would'nt know it. Who's to say we should die, just because that's the way it's been done forever. I know I wont be around for long, but I hope my kids and grandkids will see a longer life. The question is, will they want to.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

Is Island the new Mule?

Best,

Kurt

I'll wager that he'll stubbornly deny that .