Speeding Ticket

[kimlangley7]

Just accept the fact that a significant population of cops are nothing more than revenue collectors with guns. Pay up... and slow down..

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by kimlangley7

Just accept the fact that a significant population of cops are nothing more than revenue collectors with guns. Pay up... and slow down..

And the ones who are are following orders, I believe. I don't believe that cops have all that much latitude in deciding how to run their individual shifts and that those who appear to their superiors to be writing an inordinate number of citations, for whatever violation, are confronted by those superiors (if they're doing their job).

I think "rogue cops" exist on occasion, but I believe their behaviour isn't generally tolerated when discovered (not really trying to stimulate anecdotal responses to the contrary, here - I'm just not an anti-cop kind of guy).

I agree; pay up and slow down....or keep having fun but don't b!tch about it when you're caught.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Conversely, I think the more you fight this kind of crap tooth-and-nail, get lawyers involved, etc. is worth it. Anything you can do to make it such that it's less "worth it" to the state to persist with this nonsense helps. Make it cost them as much as you can possibly make it. ALWAYS fight it - even if you're guilty. Waste their time.

It's all about revenue. The state WANTS people to just roll over and cough up the money on demand. That's what keeps the B.S. going. If it becomes less of a "slam dunk" for them, it's less likely to be exploited so regularly.

Of course you need to determine based on your own set of values if it's just B.S. revenue generation or whether you really did legitimately do something wrong that put others in jeopardy (common sense, 10 over doing the pace of traffic you should fight, 60 over weaving in and out of traffic you should take your lumps and not be such an a-hole). You guys know what I'm talking about here. I hope.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

You guys know what I'm talking about here. I hope.

Yeah, sure do, but that puts all of us whacko wanton speed freaks (who will always be seen as such by a large number of "others") in the position where we make our own laws to suit our own behaviour (be it absolutely sane or absolutely stupid) and that (which is kinda' antithetical to vigilantism?) doesn't work in our culture/society/democracy. There'll always be corruption and money grubbing in any case.

Edit: if you're guilty and fight it just to waste "their" time, you're also guilty of wasting "our" tax money and unless doing that can be proven to expedite legislation to change crappy laws, that ain't right either.

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

http://www.ticketassassin.com

Total load of schit. It's quasi-legal revenue-generating bull$hit. I say fight it tooth-and-nail whatever it takes.

I hate it when cops get reduced to being revenue-collecting patsies for the gubmint and the insurance companies that own it. I'm sure the cops would rather be out arresting criminals and honest-to-goodness bad guys too. I feel for the officers actually. Traffic detail has to be kind of demeaning. You put all that time & training in and you become a glorified tax collector. I'd be pretty irked.

the dicks are out to get your money.

EDIT: Just to clarify, when I say "the dicks are out to get your money", I'm not referring to P.D. in general, I'm referring to the a-holes that put them in the unenviable position of having to do this kind of menial revenue-generating goon work. I actually support the P.D. - when they're doing "police" things and laying it out there keeping crackheads and gangbangers at bay on behalf of the rest of us.

I couldn't resist this one. I'm one of those patsies or dicks that hides on his motorcycle and pulls you over. I feel absolutley no guilt about it at all. As far as I'm concerned if your going 15 mph over the speed limit on a surface street your getting stopped. No seat belt your getting stopped, no front plate your getting stopped. Why, because typically by doing that I will tow 4-5 cars a day whose driver is unlicensed or driving on a suspended license. Suspended license means an arrest. Why is it suspended? prior drunk driving arrest? Maybe to many unpaid tickets or an accident with no insurance. Jeff let that same unlicensed and uninsured driver hit your car and god forbid injure a loved one then the posts here would be "Why aren't the Popo doing something about all the unlicensed drivers"

It's funny, On several occasions I've had people approach me while shooting laser on my bike and say that they were glad we were there because they were tired of people speeding up and down their street. To them, it is a very real concern and an issue that needs to be addressed. These speeders are not going 30 mph over the limit but are speeding. Later, I will stop someone on that same street who is going 15-20 over the limit and they will have big attitude and suggest that I go do real police work. One citizen is happy, the other is not. Oh well, can't please everybody. I don't write chickenXXXX tickets and I sleep very well at night. Do I speed? of course I have. But I honestly don't remember the last time I got stopped in a car for speeding. Do I write everybody I stop? No, I don't. But if you give me attitude because I stopped you, then you will get the ticket.

Don't feel for me Jeff. Ask any guy on a motorcycle who has the best job and see what they tell you. Of course, I really miss going to domestic disturbances and chasing the radio all night. No one is forced to do it and no one feels demeaned by it. We get to go play at all the hot calls and don't have to spend the rest of the shift writing the paper afterwards.

Oh btw, I can't wait till July when I can start writing people for talking on thier cell phones. I will write every single person I see. And I love to write cars who cut to the front of several lanes of backed up traffic in the turn only lane and then go straight when the light turns green because thier time is more valuable the everyone elses.

All that being said. I suggest at least going to court. If the officer doesn't show up, the ticket is dismissed. As far as I'm concerned, if the officer doesn't feel strongly enough about the ticket to show up to court and defend it, why should you pay it? The pain in the arse it is to go there in the first place will probably be enough of a reminder to watch your speed in that area anyway.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

Oh btw, I can't wait till July when I can start writing people for talking on their cell phones. I will write every single person I see. And I love to write cars who cut to the front of several lanes of backed up traffic in the turn only lane and then go straight when the light turns green because thier time is more valuable the everyone elses.

I can't wait either! Peace and quiet at last. Sorry, I could't take your call, I was in the car. I really don't want to be one of those people with a little device that blinks, sticking in my ear.

Please do write those guys up! They piss me off. I wish I could give them a ticket.

There were two motor cops ticketing cars for failure to stop at an quiet intersection right by my place yesterday morning. I kept hearing sirens and couldn't figure out why they were so short. As I left for lunch, I saw one hiding behind an RV near the corner and the ohter giving a ticket. I glad they are there and wish they would be there more often. Too many people in my neighborhood, that ignore the stop sign.

Every car should have a 915 tranny - it'd force them to come to a complete stop!

[Porsche-O-Phile]

MM, I understand your point of view, but this is rationalization plain and simple. It's the same exact position that someone took a page or so back - that the occasional lucky and coincidental discovery of a more serious violation somehow justifies the means. I disagree with this position.

Ultimately what's more likely to catch you an honest-to-goodness bad guy - picking people that happen to have no front plate or targeting a vehicle that's "out of place" in the wrong neighborhood, driving around erratically or suspiciously? It's easier to just "roll the dice" and hope you get a "fish on" that day I guess, but I suspect keen situational awareness and attention to details (identifying something/someone "out of place) would yield better success rates. . .

Is it more likely that you'll bust an honest-to-goodness bad guy because you happened to guess right that day by plucking the "right" car out of the pack, or because you were part of a deliberate and targeted campaign to patrol known crime areas or follow up on a systemic pattern of robberies, break-ins, carjackings, assaults or other crimes that are on the rise in a particular area? I suppose it's a lot more easy/convenient/simple to just pull over people at random; it's far more work to actually put thought into it, track and identify criminal behavior trends and then respond to them. It sounds like you're advocating taking the "easy way out" and then using luck to justify the heavy-handed tactics.

Is it more likely that you're going to catch an honest-to-goodness bad guy or drug slinger by just plucking some random commuter out of a "fast pack" moving down the road coming home from work, or stopping the "sideways hat/baggy pants" guy with the tattoos and piercings who's cruising around in the "pimped out" ricer car, fart can exhaust, illegally modified engine & suspension and what-not? You've got to ask the question, "how is that kid affording that stuff?" (or maybe you're not allowed to ask those questions - at least not "on record"?)

Sorry, but your above position is rationalization. Plain and simple. I ain't buying it. The game is all about sucking in money for a failing and inefficient state/local government and frankly they've got you trained well to rationalize getting it for them - this comes across loud & clear in your post. It's all about generating revenue and then using the occasional, coincidental and lucky "successes" that net you something actually more serious as justification to continue the extortion.

Look, I'm not discounting your service. I mean it when I say this - cops do a lot of things in the course of an "average day" that I wouldn't want to do. I respect that. I really do appreciate you guys trying to keep the bad guys off the streets and keep some semblance of order in our society. It's a hard, dangerous and probably (more often than not) thankless job. I really do appreciate the fact that there are some people willing to step up to the plate and do the job. However, at some point you've got to take a step outside the situation and look at the "big picture" here. In the capacity of traffic enforcers, there are some things that matter and there are some things that don't. You can go on a taxpayer-funded crusade to try and change the world because of some misguided belief that you're "doing the right thing" (and naturally the government stooges and bureaucrats love to have you think that, because like pimps, they take the lion's share of what you "go fetch" them, so they can waste it). The reality is it's a sand castle against the tide.

There's some things that matter and there are some things that don't.

Catching bad guys? Getting murderers and rapists and gangbangers off the street? Hell yes. Here's a round of applause for you and 20 bucks for the Policeman's Ball. Go get 'em.

Busting crackheads, thieves, muggers and traffickers? Way to go!

Trying to find taggers and vandals and sex predators and animal abusers? Right-on brother!

On the roadways, trying to increase efficiency by clearing traffic jams, addressing road hazards (debris, breakdowns, etc.), going after the jerkoffs who are blasting along at 40 mph over the limit weaving in and out of lanes? Cracking down on illegally jacked-up vehicles that pose a hazard to other vehicles? Citing people that have "junk" piled up in the back of their trucks that can come loose and nearly kill someone on a motorcycle behind them (I've had this happen to me incidentally, twice)? Going after the "clunker/junk" vehicles with four bald tires, cracked windshields and spewing smoke? Sure. Go for it.

But when it comes to just sitting on the roadside and plucking someone out of a pack for doing nothing more than going the speed of traffic, I can't respect that very much. You're devaluing your own service by allowing yourself to simply be a patsy for a bunch of inefficient bureaucrats who need some grunts to go "round 'em up some more greenbacks" so they can continue funding their orgy of spending and government inefficiency. That's the game. I'm sorry you're reduced to doing that. That's the part I find offensive - that dedicated men & women who are willing to strap on a badge and a uniform on behalf of the rest of us get reduced to being nothing more than tax-collectors. I feel for ya'. That sucks, frankly. It pisses me off to see that there are people in government that would see good, dedicated people willing to lay it all out there misused in this manner. It's offensive that they'd use you that way (same reason I get irritated with our federal administration's willingness to put soldiers in harm's way for political gain). It's wrong, and you guys are the ones in the trenches who bear the brunt of it. My beef isn't with you folks in uniform doing a job (although I think your reasoning is flawed, FWIW), it's more with the ones handing you the orders and enjoying a life of excess and irresponsibility on the backs of your sacrifice and effort. I'm on your side really, when you think about it. I'd like to see your sacrifice count for something more than just pulling in more $$$ for bloated gubmint yokels.

Ride safely. It's a jungle out there.

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

MM, I understand your point of view, but this is rationalization plain and simple. It's the same exact position that someone took a page or so back - that the occasional lucky and coincidental discovery of a more serious violation somehow justifies the means. I disagree with this position.

Ultimately what's more likely to catch you an honest-to-goodness bad guy - picking people that happen to have no front plate or targeting a vehicle that's "out of place" in the wrong neighborhood, driving around erratically or suspiciously? It's easier to just "roll the dice" and hope you get a "fish on" that day I guess, but I suspect keen situational awareness and attention to details (identifying something/someone "out of place) would yield better success rates. . .

Is it more likely that you'll bust an honest-to-goodness bad guy because you happened to guess right that day by plucking the "right" car out of the pack, or because you were part of a deliberate and targeted campaign to patrol known crime areas or follow up on a systemic pattern of robberies, break-ins, carjackings, assaults or other crimes that are on the rise in a particular area? I suppose it's a lot more easy/convenient/simple to just pull over people at random; it's far more work to actually put thought into it, track and identify criminal behavior trends and then respond to them. It sounds like you're advocating taking the "easy way out" and then using luck to justify the heavy-handed tactics.

Is it more likely that you're going to catch an honest-to-goodness bad guy or drug slinger by just plucking some random commuter out of a "fast pack" moving down the road coming home from work, or stopping the "sideways hat/baggy pants" guy with the tattoos and piercings who's cruising around in the "pimped out" ricer car, fart can exhaust, illegally modified engine & suspension and what-not? You've got to ask the question, "how is that kid affording that stuff?" (or maybe you're not allowed to ask those questions - at least not "on record"?)

Sorry, but your above position is rationalization. Plain and simple. I ain't buying it. The game is all about sucking in money for a failing and inefficient state/local government and frankly they've got you trained well to rationalize getting it for them - this comes across loud & clear in your post. It's all about generating revenue and then using the occasional, coincidental and lucky "successes" that net you something actually more serious as justification to continue the extortion.

Look, I'm not discounting your service. I mean it when I say this - cops do a lot of things in the course of an "average day" that I wouldn't want to do. I respect that. I really do appreciate you guys trying to keep the bad guys off the streets and keep some semblance of order in our society. It's a hard, dangerous and probably (more often than not) thankless job. I really do appreciate the fact that there are some people willing to step up to the plate and do the job. However, at some point you've got to take a step outside the situation and look at the "big picture" here. In the capacity of traffic enforcers, there are some things that matter and there are some things that don't. You can go on a taxpayer-funded crusade to try and change the world because of some misguided belief that you're "doing the right thing" (and naturally the government stooges and bureaucrats love to have you think that, because like pimps, they take the lion's share of what you "go fetch" them, so they can waste it). The reality is it's a sand castle against the tide.

There's some things that matter and there are some things that don't.

Catching bad guys? ? Way to go!

Trying to find ? Right-on brother!

On the roadways, trying to increase efficiency by clearing traffic jams, addressing road hazards (debris, breakdowns, etc.), going after the jerkoffs who are blasting along at 40 mph over the limit weaving in and out of lanes? Cracking down on illegally jacked-up vehicles that pose a hazard to other vehicles? Citing people that have "junk" piled up in the back of their trucks that can come loose and nearly kill someone on a motorcycle behind them (I've had this happen to me incidentally, twice)? Going after the "clunker/junk" vehicles with four bald tires, cracked windshields and spewing smoke? Sure. Go for it.

But when it comes to just sitting on the roadside and plucking someone out of a pack for doing nothing more than going the speed of traffic, I can't respect that very much. You're devaluing your own service by allowing yourself to simply be a patsy for a bunch of inefficient bureaucrats who need some grunts to go "round 'em up some more greenbacks" so they can continue funding their orgy of spending and government inefficiency. That's the game. I'm sorry you're reduced to doing that. That's the part I find offensive - that dedicated men & women who are willing to strap on a badge and a uniform on behalf of the rest of us get reduced to being nothing more than tax-collectors. I feel for ya'. That sucks, frankly. It pisses me off to see that there are people in government that would see good, dedicated people willing to lay it all out there misused in this manner. It's offensive that they'd use you that way (same reason I get irritated with our federal administration's willingness to put soldiers in harm's way for political gain). It's wrong, and you guys are the ones in the trenches who bear the brunt of it. My beef isn't with you folks in uniform doing a job (although I think your reasoning is flawed, FWIW), it's more with the ones handing you the orders and enjoying a life of excess and irresponsibility on the backs of your sacrifice and effort. I'm on your side really, when you think about it. I'd like to see your sacrifice count for something more than just pulling in more $$$ for bloated gubmint yokels.

Ride safely. It's a jungle out there.

Jeff. I understand your point of view as well. But in regards to your statement of "I suppose it's a lot more easy/convenient/simple to just pull over people at random; it's far more work to actually put thought into it, track and identify criminal behavior trends and then respond to them. It sounds like you're advocating taking the "easy way out" and then using luck to justify the heavy-handed tactics" let me clarify a couple of things. First I don't randomly pull over anyone, I don't pluck someone out of a bunch of cars moving at the same speed. If stopping someone for going 15 mph over the speed limit is in your mind simple a act of generating revenue, being heavy handed then I'm guilty as charged. Not sure how that is taking the "easy way out" but whatever. So If I understand you correctly, Police officers time should only be be targeting taggers, vandals, sex predators and animal abusers, Getting murderers and rapists and gangbangers off the street? Busting crackheads, thieves, muggers and traffickers and only stopping speeders who are are blasting along at 40 mph over the limit weaving in and out of lanes. So those are your concerns as well as most peoples concerns.

Couple of questions though. Where exactly do murderers hang out? what exactly does a sex predator look like? What about the lastest Sex predator in the LA area. He was the Vice principal of his school. what about these animal abusers? So your more concerned about an animal abuser then the unlicensed uninsured motorist driving next to you. Ok, what does he look like? What crime trends or profiles should I be looking at exactly. On one hand your telling me that I should stop the saggy pants wearing guy with tats driving a pimped out ricer car. Because I should ask how he can afford that stuff. So I should be profiling? What about the same kind of guy driving a porsche. What if you were profiled for something? Then there would be a post about that.

Jeff, I'm not rationalizing anything and I'm not on a crusade to save the world, but my experience in the field (I know many here are experts but do you have any actual police experience) has shown me that believe it or not people also have concerns over people speeding thru their neighborhoods or like slodave mentioned running stop signs or any number of moving violations. The facts are you have a better chance of getting involved in an accident by someone running a redlight, or being otherwise distracted then you do to being a victim to a violent crime. (okay, maybe not in long beach)

I've worked prostitution stings, Bait car stings, ABC stings, bandit taxicab stings, served warrants, dealt with transients, taggers, and narco issues. While in a specialized unit these were all concerns of the people who lived in those areas. Our job as a Police force is to try to address the concerns of many many different citizens in different communities and there are officers that are specifically assigned to address those different areas of concern. The latest are sport bike riders. In my area, seven of the last eight fatalities have been sport bike riders. Guess who will not be seeing the love. Several have run from us, one group rolled up to a motor on the freeway, looked over then took off. They were doing at least 135 mph. A task force is in the works right now.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

It's funny, On several occasions I've had people approach me while shooting laser on my bike and say that they were glad we were there because they were tired of people speeding up and down their street. To them, it is a very real concern and an issue that needs to be addressed. These speeders are not going 30 mph over the limit but are speeding.

Mike,

I am one of these people. I live off of Cave Creek road in North Phoenix. Guess where it goes? The town of Cave Creek! Guess who lives in Cave Creek? Sonny Barger, the founder of Hells Angeles.

Now do not get me wrong, I have nothing against the HA, nor the bikes they ride as long as they obey the law. Riding 20-30 mph over the speed limits AND with no mufflers is not obeying the law. Its one thing to have 1 or 2 Harleys riding up or back to CC, but when you have a pack of 20 of them at a time, and a pack of them every 15-20 minutes all day long, and none of them have mufflers, and they are speeding all the way, its unsafe and the noise is tiring.

I have called the Police many times and begged them to put a black and white in this area with a radar gun. Have even stopped next to them several times when they did set up a radar site and thanked them. (it was really funny as the officer said "you are one of the few people not speeding on this road and your are driving a Jaguar!)

As well all the neighbours in this area are tired of the cars going 65-70 in a 45 mph zone around our house. We live right on the edge of town and its open desert 100 meters North of my house. People feel that they can "open it up" and head the 10 miles to Cave Creek and that does not bother most of us, but when they fail to slow down when getting in this area (there are lots of kids around) then it needs to stop. Thats why many of us are calling the Police to settle things down here in this area.

Like I said before, I speed much of the time. Am driving to Tucson today for a funeral and will set the cruise control at 81 mph, which is 6 mph above the limit of 75 once on the open road. If I get hit with a ticket I will pay it as I know I was speeding.

Joe

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

As well all the neighbours in this area are tired of the cars going 65-70 in a 45 mph zone around our house...

Joe,
The speeds seem to be the norm in Phoenix. When I lived there, everyone drove more than 20 above on the surface streets like Tbird, Glendale etc. Funnily, they were only 10 above on the freeways. Weird IMO.

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Like I said before, I speed much of the time. Am driving to Tucson today for a funeral and will set the cruise control at 81 mph, which is 6 mph above the limit of 75 once on the open road. If I get hit with a ticket I will pay it as I know I was speeding.

Joe

You might not want to post that Joe, with intent and all.

[daepp]

Geez guys - I just thought the fine was too high! I am going to go to court and say so. I'll let you know what happened.

[Buckterrier]

Go Get Em' Tiger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[the]

Originally Posted by artplumber

You might not want to post that Joe, with intent and all.

Is a ticket for going 6 miles over the speed limit WITHOUT the intent to speed any different than one for going 6 miles over the speed limit WITH the intent to speed?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by the

Is a ticket for going 6 miles over the speed limit WITHOUT the intent to speed any different than one for going 6 miles over the speed limit WITH the intent to speed?

Ties into that whole B.S. question they ask when they pull you over: "Do you know how fast you were going?" Like anyone with half a brain is going to actually answer that. Gee whiz, if you say "no", you're admitting to not paying attention. If you say "yes" you're admitting to deliberately disregarding the law. Total entrapment.

I guess if I ever got asked that I'd say, "sir, I'm sure regardless of how I answer it's going to bring about the same result, so I really can't speak to that". Maybe it pisses 'em off but I'm not about to have someone insult my intelligence either.

I hate the whole B.S. game. I'd actually prefer it if the politicians came out and simply admitted what they were doing ("we need more money so we're going to enhance revenue through carefully placed speed traps") rather than trying to put up this charade like it's somehow legitimate and for the common good. It's one of many reasons that "government official" means "person with questionable credibility" more often than not. . .