Question on basement issues I saw somewhere recently

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

I would like to get some thoughts on some basement issues I saw recently. Home was built in the 1930's and I'm trying to understand what might be going on here.

In one corner there was water "bubbling" up from between the wall and the floor. Looks like it has done this before. It is then pooling and running down the channel designed to catch run-off.



Here is the corresponding outside corner. The drain does not completely connect with the line for the (cistern?) and the status of the cistern is uncertain.



The home is not lived in and the people, we think, are trying to flip this home for fun and profit.

Here is the can storage room right under the front door. Notice the floor has water where it has run down and appears to maybe be coming from between the walls and floor? I am not certain at this point...

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

And here is the floor where the door is:




And here are the drains outside the pantry. They are dumping water right on the earth:






And finally, there is a wood storage room under the front porch. The snow had piled up about two feet on the porch without being removed and melted, soaking through the concrete porch and into the wood room. There is also the appearance of water infiltrating in one interior corner.



And the staining on the floor tells me this has been going on for some time.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

And so we come to corrective actions:

Run away Forrest!!!

or

verify the cistern status. Ensure all lines are clear and flow directly into cistern. Then, put in a two foot French drain about six inches deep using heavy grade roofing plastic sealed to the home with 50 year sealant.

or

Any other ideas?

I'm also wondering if there should not be a structural support in the center of the wood room ceiling holding up the porch? It is a rather thick slab, but still time can be unfriendly? Is the water seepage through this concrete of concern?

[legion]

What would be the problem with putting in normal downspouts and forgetting about the cistern altogether? Seems pretty obvious that water is leeching in through the foundation because it is emptying too close.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Chris,

Thanks! Just trying to figure this out.

Cistern is nice so it can water a small grove of fruit trees and a veggie garden during the summer.

[Brian 162]

I would re-direct the downspouts away from the house. If that stops the seepage then I would cap off the clay drain going into the ground.

[stealthn]

Several factors at work = leaky basement. I would recommend going to basementsystems.com and doing some reading. I would even get one of them to come check it out.

We have a 7 year old home (built) that started leaking as well, and got their system put in, guaranteed for the life of the house not to have water in the basement. Money well spent.

Good luck.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I'm thinking it's more of a hydrostatic pressure issue with water under the ground forcing its way in. Water just running through dry soil down below the level of the basement slab won't cause problems like that - most likely the "fix" to this is very expensive, involving trenching around the exterior wall and installing a French drain or a conventional clay-pipe drainage system, and possibly adding waterproofing to the foundation as an additional measure.

Let me ask this - given the orientation of the building on the property, is the infiltration underground much more pronounced on one side of the building than another? If so, it's a classic case of the foundation being planted in the middle of a natural underground "river" - the "upstream" side will get more infiltration.

[Icemaster]

Could be a lot of things. What's the topography of the lot? Is the house on a slope or in a bowl?

No way to tell the status of the clay tile without getting someone to run a camera down there, RotoRooter did this for me for free (long story....) and it was emminently helpful.

First thing to do is get the water away from the house; make sure it runs to the cistern; extend the downspouts away from the house and disperse over the ground; check the slope of the dirt aound the foundation; needs to slope away.

I've done both the french drain route (on my old 1888 house with a stone foundation) and a sump pump on my current 1925 tudor.

What part of town? I'd be glad to come out and take a look if you want a second opinion.

[Icemaster]

Couple other points:

Take a hammer and tap the underside of the porch slab. Rust stains on the surface and underneath mean wet re-bar. Wet rebar rusts & expands leading to spalling. You'll hear a huge difference between solid concrete and concrete with problems.

And - water + wood thru concrete = termites. Checked for that yet?

[targa911S]

Had a similar problem when I got this house. All the underground drain piping for the downspouts was crushed. It was that old tar paper kind of stuff. We dug it all up, replaced it with PVC and regraded the whole back part of the lot to get the water running away from the house instead of to the house. Been dry since.

[Sapporo Guy]

The home is not lived in and the people, we think, are trying to flip this home for fun and profit.

Are you thinking of buying the place?


I would have it PPI'd

[MT930]

Get the water (downspouts) as far away from the house as you can. Looks like years of the water perking back in to the foundation. Make sure the ground slopes away from the house(water drains away). This is very common, you are most likely fine unless concrete starts cracking (freeze & thawing). I have been there It's someone else's problem now. Should not be over looked.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Thanks guys!! Yep, looking at homes to buy and this is the only one with promise as far as homes goes. Most I've looked at have MAJOR issues.

This one is on 13 acres with 20 plus acres for sale by the neighbor and MOST of the land is level and useable. The home sits on the top of a hill, there is top soil on this hill. I was thinking underground water, but don't see where a stream might have been. Never know what is going on just above the rock... Infiltration appears to have happened all around the home but it is just the one part of the house that had active water infiltration.

There is a slope and drain in the middle of the basement. The basement and corresponding flooring above appear well built. The joists are hard wood and appear to be in fabulous shape. Being from Texas I looked for signs of termites, did not see any. Does not mean there are none. I found two spots for little micey fellows to enter. I did not like the wood shavings right on the foundation. harbour for little beasts, of course my dog kills little things for fun and games...

The ground is just warming up after a foot of snow and an inch of rain. I would call the local soil saturated. Drying on the top of the hill and you can see water is still draining down the sides.

Property is 45 miles south and east of Cincy. quite a haul... Do not know what we are going to do yet but The Wife wants to start looking at property. Most everything has electrical problems, structural issues, neighbor issues, etc. This is the main issue we see with this home, besides distance of commute to the bus lines for downtown...

GREAT thought on the hammer test, I forgot all about checking. I know this infiltration can be stopped with proper cover on the porch but forgot about the damage to the concrete already there. Yep, there is some rust in a couple of areas. Problems to come?

[red-beard]

My Parents had a house with some similar issues. They eventually finished the basement, and then had REAL problems. They had the entire floor, 1 foot from wall, jack hammered and drain tile installed. Also, a pump was installed to drain any build up away. Perfectly dry after that.

The water for the backyard and most of the roof flow, was trapped in the backyard, no drain system to the street. With your topographic situation, I would suggest looking in the same areas. The downspouts are not helping.

[red-beard]

Oh, and termites don't generally live that far north.

Curious, how much for the house and property? And the neighbor's property?

[kycarguy 935]

I am along the same plane up the Ohio river and we do have termites here. Not as bad as when I lived in So. Cal. but we do have them in this region of the country also. Good luck on your purchase.

[Icemaster]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Oh, and termites don't generally live that far north.

Wanna bet?

[red-beard]

Hmmm. I used to live in Upstate NY, and I thought Ohio would have been similar. Touche