Interesting conversation wih my doc...

[nostatic]

I never got buzzed on xanax. It was to make it so that all my nerve endings no longer felt like they were on fire and I could actually function. Benzos are fairly specific in their action, alcohol less so. I know people who take benzos to get high (I used to pop valiums for that purpose back in the day) but if you are clinical and taking the right dose, there is no buzz at all.

I find alcohol to be a great social lubricant but it does not help with anxiety. But everyone's chemistry is a little different. The thing is, if you are questioning whether or not you have a problem...then you have a problem. The next question is what to do about it.

[berettafan]

Was NEVER a drinker until about 2 mos. ago. You should see the lineup of wine bottles (and a few beer bottles as well) in my garage waiting to go to recycling. 1-3 glasses per night. Typical # is 2.

I started as part of a move to a healthier lifestyle and partly to expand my palate. Meals take on a whole new meaning when you add wine to the mix. Beer too IMO. For example last night i had a small plate of whole grain pasta with tomato sauce of my own making (garlic, olive oil, ital. seasonings and tomato puree) with 1 glass of Chianti. Ordinarily a small plate of pasta will see me looking for a hunk of meat to add to it or afterwards I'll be snacking like a fat chick in a little debbie factory; but adding the wine to it caused the meal to be MUCH more substantial and fulfilling. I ate one slice of cheese later that night. That's it. For me, it's amazing. I'm drinking alcohol for the flavor, not the alchohol.

My personal rule is no chemicals for the purpose of altering state of mind. Period.

I'm not sure what the health risks of 1 drink per day are (in the case of red wine it's actually beneficial!) but my guess is a little research would show that 1 pill per day is a far riskier behaviour to engage in.

I will admit though i read this thread with an eye towards monitoring my own habits. If i lost my job tomorrow and was facing forclosure on my home i'd probably stop buying wine until the situation was resolved. I love myself but I don't trust myself to get through a situation like that without some potential for abuse.

If you're facing a similar time in your life my feeling is lock out the booze to mitigate the potential for abuse. Come back to it when things are back on a more even keel.

[einreb]

Scientology, vicodin or weed.

[TerryBPP]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Looks like it was a healthy drink though

Average.

The liquor level is right below the top of the label.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by berettafan

My personal rule is no chemicals for the purpose of altering state of mind. Period.

I hate to break the news to you...but alcohol is a chemical that alters your state of mind.

[TerryBPP]

Originally Posted by einreb

Scientology, vicodin or weed.

No matter which you choose you're going to see aliens.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by nostatic

I hate to break the news to you...but alcohol is a chemical that alters your state of mind.

That's exactly what my doc said to me when I told him I didn't like the idea of medication.

[Superman]

I deal with anxiety. I had an anxiety "event" a couple of years ago that was pretty frightening. Xanax was prescribed, but it did virtually nothing. Ultimately, Valium did the trick. It was a deal where I needed to "reboot" my brain. I needed to shut it down for a while, then resume normal life. The Valium did that. When it was all finished, I had a fair number of them left. I have always enjoyed Valium but since my anxiety "event" was over, I didn't bother the leftover pills. They eventually went away. But.....I would keep them on hand if I could. Perhaps my doctor would allow me that. Doctors don't like prescribing Valium, even though at one point it was the second most popular pill in America.....right behind aspirin. It's addictive, they say. No big surprise there.....it works wonders on my anxiety, for sure. Xanax, a sister drug......not so much.

I have a beer or two each evening. Fairly strong beers, but not more than two.

Exercise is better. More effective. Creates a broad range of positive emotional and physical impacts.

I was an alcoholism counselor once. Most of them are alcoholics, and quite quick to diagnose. Quick to conclude you are an alcoholic. If you've ever driven drunk....alcoholic. If anyone has ever complained about your drinking.....alcoholic.

Still, based on what I have seen, alcoholism is not a disease you want to get. Nope.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by nostatic

I hate to break the news to you...but alcohol is a chemical that alters your state of mind.

'for the purpose of...'


Big difference to me.


I am finding the entire process of selecting, opening, pouring, sniffing, looking at and drinking the wine to be very relaxing. When i'm thinking about the relationship of the wine to the food i happen to be eating i am not thinking about tax returns, mortgage payments, rooms that need to be painted, problematic family members, grass that isn't growing too well this spring, the slow leak in the guest room toilet, etc.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by berettafan

'for the purpose of...'


Big difference to me.


I am finding the entire process of selecting, opening, pouring, sniffing, looking at and drinking the wine to be very relaxing. When i'm thinking about the relationship of the wine to the food i happen to be eating i am not thinking about tax returns, mortgage payments, rooms that need to be painted, problematic family members, grass that isn't growing too well this spring, the slow leak in the guest room toilet, etc.

well, you didn't say "for the purpose of" the first time around. But in fact you are altering your state of mind and an external chemical is involved. While all the other trappings are certainly part of the "experience", you'd have to admit that the ethanol itself is involved in it.

Perhaps some people find the procurement, opening of the bottle, swallowing of pills, and sitting around waiting for a decent serum level to be part of the "entire process."

I actually understand what you're saying, but plenty of rationalizations exist for all sorts of behaviors...

[Burnin' oil]

LenDaddy,

Your drinking habits sound exactly like mine so don't worry. You are A-OK.

[berettafan]

Check my quote in your post NS, i did say 'for the purpose of'.

I do hear you though and recognize that the line can be a thin one indeed. This is why I stated i would remove the alcohol entirely if my situation became dire (and aren't we all one phone call from that?).

To me there is a major difference in that wine/beer have properties OTHER than just the alcohol. A yummy pilsner with an authentic kielbasa is VERY different from popping a pill and waiting for the world to turn fuzzy. I'm not a liquor guy but i assume the same can be said for scotch, whiskey, etc.

Like many I've had a front row seat to alcohol and pill abuse thanks to more than one person in my family and can really, really appreciate the damage such things can do. Pills are particularly evil because there is no smell, no telltale empty bottles, etc. and denial seems like it would be much easier.

[Milu]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Xanax .5mg

Stick to the Bushmills!

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Perhaps some people find the procurement, opening of the bottle, swallowing of pills, and sitting around waiting for a decent serum level to be part of the "entire process."

A very good point. I see what you are saying and the chasm between pills and vino w/ dinner becomes just a bit smaller.

Good thread. To put a twist on a popular forum sentiment 'the honesty in this thread is strong'.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by Milu

Stick to the Bushmills!

Seems to be the consensus.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Check my quote in your post NS, i did say 'for the purpose of'.

mea culpa, but my response still stands. Maybe I read too much into it or took it out of context, but to me having a glass or two of wine at night followed by saying that you don't take any chemicals with the purpose of altering your state of mind is incongruous. I understand your clarification, but the bottom line is that we're arguing semantics. I guess one could discuss "intent" with drinking. If you enjoy the process, then how about a non-alcoholic wine or beer? If such a beast could taste as good, would the evening be as good?

I drink wine because my doc says it is good for my heart. I enjoy the side effect of the alcohol. I don't get drunk, but any amount of alcohol is going to lead to some amount of alteration in your mind. The intent doesn't matter...that is just chemistry. Of course the intent does perhaps matter when you're talking about how the substance and process affects one's life.

[bt1211]

Can I offer some
jonny black
Balvenie
oban 14
jack single barrel
chivas
jameson
or
maker's
?????

[porsche930dude]

dont know if anybody mentioned it but you can substitute the hard stuff for red wine. Get to sleep and clean your blood at the same time

[David]

By most measures, I'm a heavy drinker (as you all can probably tell by some of my late night replies.) Lately I've been thinking that the thing that's going to get me to stop is vanity At 40, my 6 pack abs are turning into a little pony keg. Maybe a switch from beer to something else would help?

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by nostatic

I drink wine because my doc says it is good for my heart. I enjoy the side effect of the alcohol. I don't get drunk, but any amount of alcohol is going to lead to some amount of alteration in your mind. The intent doesn't matter...that is just chemistry. Of course the intent does perhaps matter when you're talking about how the substance and process affects one's life.

On this we are in agreement 100%.

Terhats it would be reasonable to further distill the issue into drinking as a response to a situation vs. not.

Oh, yet another benefit for me is that after a glass (or two) of wine i will not drink soda. The two just don't get along in my stomach. Used to drink 1/2 to 1 liter of diet pepsi per evening.