Interesting conversation wih my doc...

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by berettafan

On this we are in agreement 100%.

Terhats it would be reasonable to further distill the issue into drinking as a response to a situation vs. not.

Oh, yet another benefit for me is that after a glass (or two) of wine i will not drink soda. The two just don't get along in my stomach. Used to drink 1/2 to 1 liter of diet pepsi per evening.

Uggh. I have never drank diet soda, and a few years ago, in part due to my son, I essentially gave up ALL soda. I will have one about once every two months. If I'm forced to stop for fast food on the road I'll get a bottled water, and if I'm ordering a drink out that isn't wine it'll either be neat or with oj or lime juice.

That aspartame stuff will kill ya

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by cgarr

Sounds more like a habit than an addiction? But as with me the habit was not easy to shake until the legal system stepped in. Your right, The definition is vague, but what I have found was if you cant stop drinking once you start, then you have a problem. I had a shrink once tell me, If you have ever had a drink and then drive, your an alcoholic, wow, then there is a lot of alcoholics out there then..

that shrink was a quack

Originally Posted by nostatic

or smoke a bowl. Easier on the liver...worse for the lungs.

maybe bake some pot brownies

Not a big fan of benzodiazepenes, most over prescribed drugs that are not antibiotics.
Xanax reaches peak plasma levels in 1-2 hours, 11 hour half life, so you take it at night, and are still feeling it the next morning. Pretty addictive, physically and psychologically.

How about you take the dog for a walk instead?

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

So I go in for the cold finger and we get to talking. I have a great relationship with him and he's been my doc for 15 years, he knows my business issues and asks about my alcohol use/abuse from the stress. I'm honest and tell him I'm having much more than ever before but I rarely if ever get "drunk". I told him I've been having a big nightcap most every night.

He then tells me I need to stop(of course) and says he would rather prescribe me some pills to help me mellow at night than see me hit a few fingers of the Bushmills. I was really shocked as this guy is very conservative in his approach normally. What are you guys thoughts on this?

This info suggests that there is something you said/did which you did not appreciate, that has led your physician to suggest the change. Otherwise, it really doesn't completely add up.

In any case, it's not a good idea to use bennies or alcohol as sleep aids.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by artplumber

This info suggests that there is something you said/did which you did not appreciate, that has led your physician to suggest the change. Otherwise, it really doesn't completely add up.

In any case, it's not a good idea to use bennies or alcohol as sleep aids.

Which he didn't appreciate? No I don't think so and I'm not seeing where you're coming from. Elaborate and I'll explain.

I know it's not a great solution.

[artplumber]

Sometimes questions are asked in an oblique fashion to approach the real question and get to the root of the problem. I don't mean he doesn't like you. I do mean that maybe you can't remember something you did or said, or perhaps even part of an answer that you were giving about something else (you thought), that may have led your MD to make that suggestion.

[Hetmann]

I have a beer or two or possibly something else just about every evening. I don't consider it a problem.

I have found that if I drink more than that, at say a party or something, it interferes with my sleep. Also, I don't enjoy the buzz like I did when I was younger. No experience with pills, haven't got into a situation where I needed them. Knock on wood.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by artplumber

Sometimes questions are asked in an oblique fashion to approach the real question and get to the root of the problem. I don't mean he doesn't like you. I do mean that maybe you can't remember something you did or said, or perhaps even part of an answer that you were giving about something else (you thought), that may have led your MD to make that suggestion.

Because you see it as a severe suggestion? I'm not trying to be obtuse, it just happens sometimes

[gchappel]

I continue to find it amazing that a patient that has had a doctor for 15 years, would question his judgement and instead ask the opinion of a random group of people they have never met and have no professional skills in this area. We have no idea of the other circumstances, medical issues, etc. We don't even know the meds, doses, etc he was recommending. At best we are blindly guessing- lets try flipping a coin. Why don't we all go and ask the clerk at Walmarts as well- they will have an opinion as well. There was an interesting article in one of the throw away journals that showed that many patients trusted the drug store clerks- who were often high school kids that wore the blue vests- more than their doctors as well. As a patient you certainly have choices, and I am not recommending you blindly follow recommendations without question. But I doubt that random guesses will be more useful to your care that a professional with whom you have had a long relationship. If you have questions- ask him. If you don't trust his judgment, find a new doctor.
Gary

[lendaddy]

Gary, I'm not asking people to make my decisions rather just seeking opinions like I would a friend. Don't read too much into it. Also there are many docs here and a couple have chimed in. If nothing else I hear of others experiences.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by gchappel

I continue to find it amazing that a patient that has had a doctor for 15 years, would question his judgement and instead ask the opinion of a random group of people they have never met and have no professional skills in this area. We have no idea of the other circumstances, medical issues, etc. We don't even know the meds, doses, etc he was recommending. At best we are blindly guessing- lets try flipping a coin. Why don't we all go and ask the clerk at Walmarts as well- they will have an opinion as well. There was an interesting article in one of the throw away journals that showed that many patients trusted the drug store clerks- who were often high school kids that wore the blue vests- more than their doctors as well. As a patient you certainly have choices, and I am not recommending you blindly follow recommendations without question. But I doubt that random guesses will be more useful to your care that a professional with whom you have had a long relationship. If you have questions- ask him. If you don't trust his judgment, find a new doctor.
Gary

Phhhhh!! You don't know?

Everyone here knows more than the next guy, if everyone applied themselves here we could cure cancer, build 500HP cars that do not use crude oil, solve all the countries problems and invent a religion that everyone would agree with and love.

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Because you see it as a severe suggestion? I'm not trying to be obtuse, it just happens sometimes

LOL. Actually, I'm hoping you'll become more acute in your acumen.

Using a benny for sleep, not really the standard of care at the current time. Maybe there's something else driving the suggestion for a change from the legal drug to the prescribed drug, other than trying to get you to sleep. PPOT kind of is aware of your situation, but I doubt we have the real understanding of what you look like and feel like on a day to day basis. You may not even know it yourself. OTOH this physician has known you a long time and can see things we can't perceive through a computer screen....

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by gchappel

I continue to find it amazing that a patient that has had a doctor for 15 years, would question his judgement and instead ask the opinion of a random group of people they have never met and have no professional skills in this area. We have no idea of the other circumstances, medical issues, etc. We don't even know the meds, doses, etc he was recommending. At best we are blindly guessing- lets try flipping a coin. Why don't we all go and ask the clerk at Walmarts as well- they will have an opinion as well. There was an interesting article in one of the throw away journals that showed that many patients trusted the drug store clerks- who were often high school kids that wore the blue vests- more than their doctors as well. As a patient you certainly have choices, and I am not recommending you blindly follow recommendations without question. But I doubt that random guesses will be more useful to your care that a professional with whom you have had a long relationship. If you have questions- ask him. If you don't trust his judgment, find a new doctor.
Gary

Some of us have first-hand experience with the drugs in question, and forgotten more biochemistry than the docs ever learned in the first place.

Len said the dose. I know the typical scripts that get written for this. Yes, his doctor might know best but from my discussions with various GPs and Psychs, often GPs are guessing when it comes to these types of meds. And in general, we live in a culture where we over-prescribe for sickness (ie antibiotics) and psych (ie prozac, benzos) and under-prescribe for pain (although the latter seems to be changing).

Hopefully some of the information here can help Len ask his doc the right questions. Were I him I'd also get a psych consult. Patients need to be informed and involved in their health care. You can go to webMD or the Mayo site for vetted information, but this place has a fair amount of expertise and real-world experience. Should one take it with a grain of salt? Most definitely. But I wouldn't reject it out-of-hand, nor would I just follow what my GP said "just because."

[Bill Douglas]

Go to a herbal shop and ask for something that makes you sleep. I take something called easy sleep, made by Healtheries which may be just an Australian/New Zealand company. So there will be lots of things in the US.

It works really well as it stops your mind racing around. It also got rid of the hyper feeling that I get after I've had my minimum sleep requirement which is about 3 or 4 hours. With Easy sleep I get about 6 or even 8 hours sleep. And like mentioned earlier gym or a walk is excellent. A jump is even better.

[gchappel]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Some of us have first-hand experience with the drugs in question, and forgotten more biochemistry than the docs ever learned in the first place.

Len said the dose. I know the typical scripts that get written for this. Yes, his doctor might know best but from my discussions with various GPs and Psychs, often GPs are guessing when it comes to these types of meds. And in general, we live in a culture where we over-prescribe for sickness (ie antibiotics) and psych (ie prozac, benzos) and under-prescribe for pain (although the latter seems to be changing).

Hopefully some of the information here can help Len ask his doc the right questions. Were I him I'd also get a psych consult. Patients need to be informed and involved in their health care. You can go to webMD or the Mayo site for vetted information, but this place has a fair amount of expertise and real-world experience. Should one take it with a grain of salt? Most definitely. But I wouldn't reject it out-of-hand, nor would I just follow what my GP said "just because."

We can agree to disagree. If you want to get your drugs prescribed by a biochemist be my guest. I certainly support this type of discussion on a general basis, but to even consider that it can help on any individual case I think is foolhardy. I am on boards every day where cancer treatments, etc are discussed in a similar manner. Just because drug X worked or didn't work for my Aunt Millie, has nothing to do with any other individual patient. The doctor patient relationship is a large, broad and important one. It consists of much more than xanax. General discussion on such topics can be helpful, but to make individual decisions based on random comments is not usually the sign of genius.
Gary

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by artplumber

LOL. Actually, I'm hoping you'll become more acute in your acumen.

Using a benny for sleep, not really the standard of care at the current time. Maybe there's something else driving the suggestion for a change from the legal drug to the prescribed drug, other than trying to get you to sleep. PPOT kind of is aware of your situation, but I doubt we have the real understanding of what you look like and feel like on a day to day basis. You may not even know it yourself. OTOH this physician has known you a long time and can see things we can't perceive through a computer screen....

Ok, I see now. I read it that it sounded to you like I had insulted or pissed off the doc.

Yea, we got into my situation a bit and I'm sure he thinks I have some anxiety issues given our discussion. But in reality he really wants me to stop drinking because he feels the health effects are devastating. He talked of a slow pickling of the brain, and muscle atrophy, etc... obviously extreme examples but he was driving at a point. I got the impression that he might see an opportunity to nip an aspiring alcoholic in the bud

One important thing I forgot to mention is that given a couple of other symptoms and my weight he is concerned about diabetes and stopping the alcohol would help with that.

He ran a full urine and blood work up and I'll have those results Monday-Tuesday.

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Ok, I see now. I read it that it sounded to you like I had insulted or pissed off the doc.

Yea, we got into my situation a bit and I'm sure he thinks I have some anxiety issues given our discussion. But in reality he really wants me to stop drinking because he feels the health effects are devastating. He talked of a slow pickling of the brain, and muscle atrophy, etc... obviously extreme examples but he was driving at a point. I got the impression that he might see an opportunity to nip an aspiring alcoholic in the bud

One important thing I forgot to mention is that given a couple of other symptoms and my weight he is concerned about diabetes and stopping the alcohol would help with that.

He ran a full urine and blood work up and I'll have those results Monday-Tuesday.

Now we're getting somewhere. Were there changes on your biochem profile, urine etc. Do you have a touch of sleep apnea as well? Was he advocating use of the benny just for sleep or for gen anxiety/worry? Are you really drinking only a generous sized one at night. Family history of substance abuse (don't answer)? See, there's more here than meets first glance.

Oh, and he may want you to think that he wants you to avoid becoming an alcoholic. That may not be the true purpose at all. (Don't hold it against him. Would you really take a benny for anxiety? Think less of yourself because you did? Shades of Lube)

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by artplumber

Now we're getting somewhere. Were there changes on your biochem profile, urine etc. Do you have a touch of sleep apnea as well? Was he advocating use of the benny just for sleep or for gen anxiety/worry? Are you really drinking only a generous sized one at night. Family history of substance abuse (don't answer)? See, there's more here than meets first glance.

The biochem profile won't be back until next week (Doc was going out of country for a overseas charity hospital thing he does so it's delayed).

I do not have sleep apnea though my father did(had surgery).

Not for sleep, it wasn't even mentioned I don't think. It was discussed as a "less evil" way to relax at the end of the day.

No, it's more than a drink usually. I described it as a generous nightcap to him but didn't get specific. Truthfully a fifth lasts less than a week and I guess there are 25oz in a fifth so.....maybe 3-4 normal sized drinks or 2-3 Len-sized drinks .

[cgarr]

Len, after reading you comments about your doc and now with the overseas trip, mine is going too, could we have the same doc? Mine is also very conservative about offering meds.

[lendaddy]

Initials W. T. ?

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

he is concerned about diabetes and stopping the alcohol would help with that.

I would give up alcohol in minute to avoid diabetes.