Will Porsche be able to respond (enough)?

[gprsh924]

Originally Posted by berettafan

wow, that is a startling size difference!

Kinda makes me want an NSX.

+1

Have always loved the NSX and that pic reaffirms it

[dan79brooklyn]

I've always been a fan of the NSX, I got a chance to drive one once. It drives like a honda, until you floor it and realize you were only utilizing ten percent of the pedal movement and the thing takes off! Very comfortable inside and beautiful on the outside.

From what I have been reading the stats and performance of the GTR are amazing, but I agree it is one big ugly car. I don't think Porsche would be concerned about the competition.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Wow...........I want an NSX.

[RWebb]

And... the NSX is due for an update...

I agree the Nissan is big and ugly. Maybe on purpose for "aggressive looks" or something.

I wouldn't mind seeing some comparison shots of the Audi vs. either car...

[soupbone]

GT-R is a decent hotrod "sedan" with high performance and room for four. It happens to beat 997TT / 997GT3 in mag test hot laps and in the numbers. But the greatest test in my opinion is proper "professional endurance racing." Will Nissan homologanize this production GT-R and race it outside of .JP? How about Lemans, Sebring, Daytona or any other real race? Where are the GT-R or previous models standings in such races? Id like to see how long it would last against other production based race cars with professionals behind the wheel.

I say strip off all the electronics, driver aids, turbos,AWD, and use a manual gear box! Sell it in "Infinity" show rooms instead. Oh and its ugly as hell so fix that. A 914 loks better! ;-)

[onewhippedpuppy]

From what I know, the Skyline has dominated JTC (similar to DTM or ALMS) for quite a few years. I think it's also competed in some international races and endurance races and been successful.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

Remember that it is a business, not a theory. Porsche builds/designs cars that will sell, and they are damn good at it. I get a kick out of all the folks complaining about the "direction" when they can not afford and are not in the market for a new Porsche. Porsche is not interested in pleasing people who do not have the means to purchase the product, nor should they. Why make a car that people who can not buy one love??

Now, there are still lots of folks with the means to buy who would love a change in the "direction" but they do not out wiegh the number that continues to march into dealerships and buy new Porsches.......

Cheers

And the Miata wasn't a success? Porsche can build all the luxury liners they want, but they could bring out a car similar to the Boxster with a different and less expensive platform as the did with the 914. I think the 914 was supposed to be an entry level car to get some future loyalty when it was time to move up. What entry level car do they have now?

Shoot, they could build a 2500# hot rod flat water cooled four around 2.4 liters with the motor behind and it would sell in the Mini leagues like nobody's business. Oh, that's another car that I think makes some money for BMW They just don't seem to want to. Yet, they want to sell cars in bulk now like 100,000 Cayennes and well over that in Boxsters and still counting on both fronts.

Want to have a lot of cars on the road? Build cars that sell and can be bought by the middle class. I'm sure the BMW service depts all over are not so unhappy with all the models, hence lots of service.

Really, I wonder what the overall Porsche sales figures are doing right now.

[RWebb]

milt - the problem is that any small manf. can get wiped out that way. if they build a small 'miatamobile' then any of the Japanese companies can copy it and undercut the prices by a huge amount - the economies of scale are just not there (P AG has no sedan to crib parts from).

I assume that is why they have always stayed away from the lower end (for them) of the market. IF you think about it, everything P AG makes just fits into the region between exotics (e.g. Fcars) on one end, and the mass market sports cars on the other (with a small, tolerable degree of overlap).

This happens in many areas - saxophones and other musical instruments is one, and the sizes of rats in the desert is another. It is so common in ecology that hundreds of research papers were written on it, and it came to have its own name: Species packing. The claim is that about 30% overlap is usually tolerable; after that, you need to find a different price range or size range, etc.

Of course, MB has been moving down-market over the last 10-20 years or so. But, I think it would be harder for P AG to do it. Not that I don't wish for a small, light cheap spyder from them...

[CJFusco]

Coincidentally, evo magazine is running a road test of the aforementioned Nissan vs. 997 GT3 in the next (current) issue. I will be checking the newsstands tomorrow.

[Jeff Alton]

Milt,

Sure they could do all that, but why? They are a premium brand with a premum price and they are profitable in the segment. Fact is, until they run out of buyers for the cars they are making they will not look to build what you and I really want, and can afford.

Is BMW really selling alot of minis still?

The market will push the maker. Right now it does not appear to be pushing....

Cheers

[CJFusco]

Wow, that really IS a big car...

I just bought the new issue of evo (and the new issue of excellence). evo puts the GT-R against the Vette z06, the Audi R8 (battle of the uglies?), and the 997 GT3. I haven't read the articles yet, but I have skimmed them and looked at the numbers.

Drag strip:
Corvette Z06
0-60: 3.9 sec.
0-100: 8.5 sec.
0-100-0: 14.0 sec.

Nissan GT-R
0-60: 3.8 sec.
0-100: 8.9 sec.
0-100-0: 13.9 sec.

They call it equal in performance terms, with the GTR getting a slight edge in "feel".

Against the equally-ugly Audi R8 on public roads, evo gives the nod to the GT-R, even saying that build quality is "close to what you'd expect from Porsche." At speed, the Audi can't keep up with it.

Bring on the 997 GT3.

Here are the numbers around the Bedford Autodrome's west circuit:
Porsche 911 (997) GT3: 1:22:6
Nissan GT-R: 1:21:7

That's right, the Nissan actually posted better numbers than our champ. Actually, the Nissan was barely slower around their track than the Ferrari Enzo, and just two seconds slower than our Carrera GT. Hey, at least ONE of our horses can beat it... even if it is a $400,000 horse going against a $65,000 challenger. "While you're teasing out the right balance in the GT3, the GT-R is simply powering through," writes evo.

The GT3, evo insists, is still more involving and more "dynamically malleable" and "deliciously tactile" than the Nissan... but it's a terrifyingly close contest. Both cars are awarded 5 stars out of 5 stars by evo.

At under $70K, it looks like Nissan has a serious winner. I wouldn't want one - it's too big, too ugly, too racer-boy-ish - but it sure has my respect.

[pwd72s]

Ahhh, but the real question here...will the Tribe whup Boston this year? When I was a kid, Bob Feller was the man...at least in my eyes. (Bob Feller, baseball hall of fame, '61...pitched for the Cleveland Indians.)

You know guys, there is always a "top dog" as far as car performance goes. This ranking is in constant flux. It's a fools game to always want to own the fastest. But the car makers LOVE this game...An old NASCAR phrase was "win on Sunday, sell on Monday." Now, thanks to the car mags? This has been transferred to the street cars...or maybe it has always been so. After all, my first new car was a '65 Pontiac G.T.O.

[CJFusco]

Well, there's something to be said about the fact that Porsche has been THE benchmark to which automakers have set their sights for, what? Over thirty years now?

evo magazine is explicit in saying that the benchmark for the GT-R, during development, was the Porsche 911 Turbo. How often have I read "... their performance benchmark was the Porsche 9xx..."

I even have road tests from the 1980s: The performance benchmark for the Mitsubishi Starion, Mazda RX7, etc. was the Porsche 944. The performance benchmark for the Aston Martin V8 was the Porsche 928. The performance benchmark for the Dodge Stealth was the Porsche 911 Carrera. The beat goes on.

As far as baseball goes, I have come to believe that injuries have as much to do with single-season success as on-paper talent. In other words: too early to tell anything other than that the Baltimore Orioles suck.