Jim, that is your answer. I appreciate the explanation you give. I have some difficulty with that concept as a whole, not that parts of it don't make sense.

OK, let's move on and take this from a different view, literally. (Remember, it's Friday and I'm not due to do anything but sit here and make trouble ;))

We commonly see statues of Jesus, pictures of angels, cartoons of someone standing at a lectern in the clouds, receiving. All images. There certainly is an image or two of Hell and the Devil hisownself. The classics, like above, in and about the great worshiping places of the world depict tangibles.

Hell is a concept beyond no place to go. What then?

I may be silly, you can bet on that. If you can contribute, however silly, please do.

Milt,

My girlfriend gets what she calls "impressions" of people and what their fate will be. She has had this ability since childhood, but she is afraid to do it now because she doesn't want to know how people will die and where they will go. She says there is a hell, and it has no reference points that we are familiar with; it is a dark place with swirling pinwheels of very bright light, very disorienting and scary. She went there once because she was curious to see where a bad man from her hometown went when he died. She doesn't want to ever go there again. She also says there is a heaven on the far shore of a placid ocean, and on the near shore is a waiting area where some souls have to quietly think about their lives, and learn lessons, before sailing to the far shore over the horizon.

Interesting stuff..

But for me, hell is any town without Peet's coffee. :(

Did you tell here that J.K. Rowling has quit?

I do appreciate your reply, actually, though it doesn't sound like it. The answer, if there is one, most likely lies somewhere in between the present and what she sees.

Someone mentioned that Hell might be like their childhood nightmares. I had some nightmares that could be considered similar to the above. The funny part of that is I haven't had that nightmare since I quit eating all forms of meat 23 years ago.

Meat=Hell ?? ;) :D

I can't answer this question for you. I don't think anybody can give you a definative answer. So the best I can do is highlight the the folly of trying.

I personnally don't think we are talking about a physical torment but one of the spirt that is likened to a physical torment. I think that at the moment of physical death all the slights and transgression you have ever done come back to you. If you have acknowledged that you are not perfect, have transgressed and atoned by saying your sorry for them they don't cause you torment. Otherwise they will plague your soul forever, because you can't let them go.

Now my concept of Christianity may not be correct but it is the only thing I have. I don't believe in worshipping Jesus as an idol on the cross. But I believe what he meant, is to believe in was what he said was the truth. He really didn't talk about himself but of his Father in Heaven. believe in the Father in heaven. To prove that what he said was true he put his life where his mouth was and stepped onto the cross willingly. So in that sense you believe in Jesus saying who he really was is true.

The sacrafice of Christ was his physical demostration that what he said was true. What he said is that if you ask forgiveness for your transgressions you will be forgiven, forgive your self for them. That act of contrition on your part frees you to be in a more peacfull place within yourself. Since you know you will always transgress you have to acknowledge that fact and say your sorry as the situation might require. I do not believe that Christianity gives you a free pass once and for all, but is more of a process and a template to follow. In following that template you can remain at peace with yourself and once you ask for forgivness you tend to follow that template from there on, which gives you everylasting peace.

Tempation is for you to do what you feel isn't really the right thing to do. Perhaps you might call it the easy way out. Now that is where I come in.

Once you ask for forgivness it like the bursting of a dam, all the water flows out. Which is freeing and that allows you you live your life in a different way, one in which you tend to keep following that path.

What many Born Agains do once the dam has burst is think that it is all a done deal from there on end, they tend to get high on that concept. What they forget is that they have the rest of their lives dealing with the nitty gritty of life. They continue to have choichs to make. The bible says something about seeing the light and then turning a blind eye.

If hell is the "absence of god" then heaven must be. . . what? The absence of godsquatters?

That'd be pretty close to heaven for me.

Fatty meat in an indirect heat at roughly 225 for eternity.

Al Gore invented Hell.

God gives solace, like that of a father picking up a child and comforting it during a thunder and lightening storm. Satan doesn't believe he needs God nor the solace that he provides and thus is left to twist in the wind everytime there is a thunder storm. Cowering in the dark like a frightened child, perhaps boasting that he isn't really frightened, that he really doesn't need the solace of a God.

Should I remind you that if you meet me should should show some politeness and taste.

I can tell which highway your on....

after all, it was you and me

I believe hell is simply eternal separation from God. The fire and brimstone stuff mainly comes from Dante's inferno as well as an early attempt by the church to give a tangible result to actions on earth.

So, boil it down and hell is eternal separation from God.

Clever double entendre...it is the less obvious meaning that I will take to heart.

You can? You should market that skill, you could make millions.

Yes but it is the devils choich to seperate himself from God, by saying he is equal to, greater than, or doesn't need....

BTW..I am waiting on those millions. I have a piece of a company that can tell you that very thing. It is currently in Jaguars, Land Rovers and Aston Martins...It can be further developed to enable a pay by mile system for road use.

Yes, it is the same choice offered to man, isn't it?