Making/Using Bio-Diesel

rick2 · 05-11-2008, 05:18 AM

I ran into a local janitorial supply guy and he said that he runs 100% Bio in his 5 box trucks. He offers free delivery. He said he's been doing this for a year with no ill effects to his vehicles. Costs him about $.89 a gallon and is willing to help me get set up. This is saving him 10 grand per vehicle a year. He did mention that manufacturers warranties are void if you use more than 20%. I have no warranty and the only guarantee I have is that I have to pay taxes and die.
Anyone else using this???

Danny_Ocean · 05-11-2008, 05:26 AM

http://inertialabs.com/BioDiesel.htm

turbo6bar · 05-11-2008, 06:12 AM

I've been making and using biodiesel for 18 months. It's a lot of work to make quality biodiesel. I wouldn't go back to burning dino diesel, though.

There are nice commercially available biodiesel processors starting around $6000. It will remove a lot of the experimentation and rube goldbergesque DIY aspect, but you still have to find the oil, collect oil, dry the oil (if necessary), as well as find a disposal route for the glycerine byproduct. I'm not trying to scare you away. Just be prepared that this isn't a fire-and-forget fuel solution. You are trading time for fuel savings, to some extent.

The fact you have a teacher is a big plus. Just make sure he's making quality fuel and not crap fuel. You don't want to learn bad habits.

Good luck,
Jurgen

9dreizig · 05-11-2008, 07:21 AM

When the time comes that there are significant numbers of people doing this ( and NOT paying the Gov. road tax), they will shut you guys down like crack houses.. Don't get me wrong I think it's GREAT that you're doing it !!!

pwd72s · 05-11-2008, 08:56 AM

An Oregon kid won a science competition by making biodiesel from a weed plant, scotch broom.

notfarnow · 05-11-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

I've been making and using biodiesel for 18 months. It's a lot of work to make quality biodiesel. I wouldn't go back to burning dino diesel, though.

Jurgen, that is really cool. I would love to see some pics of your setup. Where are you getting your oil, and what are you doing to filter & dewater it? I've been thinking about setting up a centrifuge.

turbo6bar · 05-11-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfarnow

Jurgen, that is really cool. I would love to see some pics of your setup. Where are you getting your oil, and what are you doing to filter & dewater it? I've been thinking about setting up a centrifuge.

Hehe. Please let me get rid of some of the junk around the reactor before I take pictures, lest you guys think I'm some kind of hillbilly from Tennessee. Oh, wait, perhaps I am a hillbilly.

The oil comes from a bunch of small restaurants (chicken and oriental foods). You have to get friendly with the owners. It helps if you know the lead monk at the local Buddhist temple.

I only filter to 400 microns (drum filter) before processing into biodiesel. Dewatering isn't necessary unless water content is above 2%. Most oil I see is under 1500 ppm (1.5%), so it's ready to process as is. I have used a centrifuge for cleaning the biodiesel, but it's just too messy and time consuming. If I were running straight vegetable oil in the engines, I might use a centrifuge on the waste vegetable oil (clean and dewater).

All in all, I'm glad I started making biodiesel. It has been a lot of work, experimentation, and headaches. As I mentioned before, it can quickly become a hassle if you're not prepared to invest the time and money.
Jurgen

notfarnow · 05-11-2008, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

The oil comes from a bunch of small restaurants (chicken and oriental foods). You have to get friendly with the owners. It helps if you know the lead monk at the local Buddhist temple.

What's your volume? I just had a great source (15 gallons/wk) that cut me off. Some ar$hole was going in there claiming he knew me (I'd never heard of the guy) and was bugging the chefs for oil, and then the owner. Was going right at suppertime too. The owners got tired of the BS, and decided to stop dealing with the biofuels scene. Sucky, it was the best source I ever had.

I think I just landed a new source though, looks like 20 gallons summer, 15 gallons winter. I'm actually going to get them in a contract, I think. Too many flakes and scheisters getting involved.

peppy · 05-11-2008, 05:49 PM

My brother had a golf with a frybrid kit. We own the restaurant and it was still a PIA to do.

peppy · 05-11-2008, 05:50 PM

My brother had a golf with a frybrid kit. We own the restaurant and it was still a PIA to do.

notfarnow · 05-11-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peppy

My brother had a golf with a frybrid kit. We own the restaurant and it was still a PIA to do.

Frybrid makes a good kit, so does Greasecar & PlantDrive. I actually just became a dealer for PlantDrive as of Friday.

What was a pain? The filtration part? I have double 40 gal settling tanks. I pour my oil in one side, it works its way through the tanks and then through 5 micron filters. I spend maybe 5 minutes/wk filtering... it take me more time to drive up the road to get diesel.

Nothing beats an "upflow" settling & filtration system. The filters last for MONTHS and the water drops right out if you keep the top half of the tanks wrapped with heat tape.

rick2 · 05-11-2008, 07:13 PM

If I remeber correctly my local guy told me he adds a 1 cup of viniger to 2 gallons of water mixes that then puts into the 85 gallon tank of oil. I don't remeber exactly when he does this in the process but it removes most of the "french fry" smell. I smelled the exhaust (please no jokes,) and the batch he was running was "bead oil" as he called it due to buying it from a local carnival and there was no odor other than the warm oil type smell.

The "glycerine byproduct" is being used as a fertilizer at a tree farm.

I'm still a newbie to all this but I figured he had the good part of $1500 in his setup as I added it in my head when he was explaining it. With a good chunk going to a portable pump to claim the oil ($400) and 85 gal holding tank ($300.)

The other added bonus is that this is going to be done on a agricultural farm land, so the inspections from the state and the states leaway to regulating what is done on agricultural land is minimal. Also what is the regulation on recycling oil in Florida as well as selling biodeisel? I do know the state of Florida has a $.23 cent tax right off the top. Does the EPA have any regulation on bio?

Disclaimer: I am learning to make this for my sole use in my own work equipment. I have no desire or means to give the big oil companies a run for their money.
If any of my equipment expells an odor that will make you hungry for fryed food and you gain a hell of alot of weight because of it please don't blame me. I have changed my moto from "round is a shape" to "round is a shape but I don't have to look that way."

BTW; Thanks for all the input!!

Racerbvd · Racerbvd's Garage

Please keep giving info, I find this very interesting

3.2 CAB · 05-11-2008, 08:00 PM

I still have my 1979 VW Diesel Rabbit that I bought new. It was run on fresh liquid vegetable oil a few times(bar bets) then 20-20 or 60 Minutes had a show about being able to use cooking oil in them. That killed the bar bets after then. That car had a 5spd and the 18??cc diesel engine, with a/c, it routinely post 50+mpg on the interstate, usually right at 53mpg. Why have they not improved on this in the last 30 years???????

There are many uses for "weed plants"

turbo6bar · 05-12-2008, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfarnow

What's your volume? I just had a great source (15 gallons/wk) that cut me off. Some ar$hole was going in there claiming he knew me (I'd never heard of the guy) and was bugging the chefs for oil, and then the owner. Was going right at suppertime too. The owners got tired of the BS, and decided to stop dealing with the biofuels scene. Sucky, it was the best source I ever had.

It has been gradually drifting upwards. Current production is 50-60 gallons/wk. The fight for used vegetable oil is getting fierce. If diesel prices stay high, things will get worse. I am going to start locking in suppliers with a contract and payment.

turbo6bar · 05-12-2008, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick2

The other added bonus is that this is going to be done on a agricultural farm land, so the inspections from the state and the states leaway to regulating what is done on agricultural land is minimal. Also what is the regulation on recycling oil in Florida as well as selling biodeisel? I do know the state of Florida has a $.23 cent tax right off the top. Does the EPA have any regulation on bio?

Disclaimer: I am learning to make this for my sole use in my own work equipment. I have no desire or means to give the big oil companies a run for their money.
If any of my equipment expells an odor that will make you hungry for fryed food and you gain a hell of alot of weight because of it please don't blame me. I have changed my moto from "round is a shape" to "round is a shape but I don't have to look that way."

I would not get into selling biodiesel. There are so many regulations that come into play when you start selling for profit. The EPA does not have a regulation on biodiesel, but they will want to ensure your waste-streams are managed properly (glycerin, wash water (if you water wash), methanol, if you reclaim methanol). Commercial biodiesel plants that make biodiesel from virgin oil are getting creamed, despite high oil prices. The commodity bubble has caused vegetable oil prices to go up in lockstep with crude oil.

Florida will want their excise tax, probably and the Federal government will extract another 24cents/gallon excise tax.

notfarnow · 05-12-2008, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

The commodity bubble has caused vegetable oil prices to go up in lockstep with crude oil.

Another effect of the high vegetable oil prices: restaurants are trying to get more use out of the oil than before. Restaurants that used to change their oil every week are now trying to squezze 10-14 days out of the oil. Means there's less oil, and it's uglier.

I also foresee paying for used oil within the next year or two.

Do you collect the oil in cubees/pails, or do your restaurants have drums that you have to collect it from? My new source needs me to set up a drum, so I'm making a sucker tank for collecting it.

jeffgrant · 05-12-2008, 05:07 AM

I just saw a segment on Dirty Jobs with a guy who makes his own bio-diesel.

Quite interesting.

turbo6bar · 05-12-2008, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfarnow

Another effect of the high vegetable oil prices: restaurants are trying to get more use out of the oil than before. Restaurants that used to change their oil every week are now trying to squezze 10-14 days out of the oil. Means there's less oil, and it's uglier.

I also foresee paying for used oil within the next year or two.

Do you collect the oil in cubees/pails, or do your restaurants have drums that you have to collect it from? My new source needs me to set up a drum, so I'm making a sucker tank for collecting it.

I anticipate as I lock in contracts/agreements with new restaurants, I will start paying 25-35cents/gallon.

I set out metal drums for the suppliers. Then, my dad goes around with a 40 gallon sucker tank on the weekends. Later, apply pressure to expel the contents of the tank, and place through a drum filter. You can go down to 200 microns easily, but when you get down to 100 micron, it clogs easily. It's really easy work, but so incredibly messy, no matter how careful you are.

If Canada is like the US, restaurants have been seeing flat to lower demand. In addition, food prices have been trending upwards strongly. The restaurants are in a bad spot. They need to raise prices, but risk driving away more customers.

notfarnow · 05-12-2008, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

I set out metal drums for the suppliers. Then, my dad goes around with a 40 gallon sucker tank on the weekends. Later, apply pressure to expel the contents of the tank, and place through a drum filter. You can go down to 200 microns easily, but when you get down to 100 micron, it clogs easily. It's really easy work, but so incredibly messy, no matter how careful you are.

I'd like to hear more about that collection system... all my previous sources just gave me the oil in cubies/buckets. This is the first time I'll be using drums & sucker tank.

What do you use to create the vacuum in the tank? How much vacuum do you need in the 40 gallon tank, about 25 inHg? Is the vacuum applied directlty to the 40 gal tank, or into a secondary vacuum tank? What size hose do you use to suck the oil up? I was thinking 1", but am now thinking that might be too small

Sorry for the flurry of questions, but I'm building mine this week, and I don't want to reinvent the wheel.