Why is E-85 going up in price like Gas

[gsmith660]

Whatched a guy selling E-85 and biodiesel raise his prices in concert with non ethanol gas and diesel prices. Is this taking advantage of a situation? I dont think raw ethanol prices are going up in stride with oil so he is making huge profits at the expense of all of us isnt he.

[legion]

The whole ethanol industry is nothing but "making huge profits at the expense of all of us".

[svandamme]

in case you don't watch the news : food prices are also up
bio fuel comes from crops, every field planted for biofuel, raises the food price because it takes away from food production..

biofuel is a very nice way to transfer the fuel pain over to the food market
and since folks still have to eat first before they can drive, at best what you get is a rising value of anything produced by farmers ( even more then just the increased overhead for farmers, who need fuel to do what they do)

[Jim Richards]

Capitalism rocks!

The only way to impact the suppliers of goods or services is to change the demand side of the equation. I think more folks need to pull a notfarnow (home-made bio-diesel) and show the oil/gas/ethanol producers the middle finger.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Capitalism rocks!

You are correct, however, the ethanol industry is built on corporate socialism. Not a single company would touch ethanol if it were not for the HUGE subsidies that ensure profit on a money-loser.

We can all thank ADM for playing up the "no depedence of foreign oil" and Green© rhetoric in convincing the politicians that it is politically in their interest to circumvent capitalism.

[Jim Richards]

Chris, you're right. Corporatism has replaced capitalism for quite some time now.

[legion]

I've said it before, but I am against all forms of socialism. I don't care who benefits: individuals or corporations. Get rid of welfare, get rid of subsidies. They both circumvent the free market to ensure some people don't have to be subjected to the laws of supply and demand.

[jkarolyi]

Here's a great article that discusses this very topic:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1725975,00.html

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Chris, are you considering running in 2012?



Agree with ya' 100%.

Although for now the low prices of E85 (ill-gotten though they might be) make a conversion to one of my vehicles a tempting endevour. Might as well get something out of getting shafted, right?

[sammyg2]

Prices at the pumps are set by the station owner or manager, and he charges what he thinks he can get and still maintain a planned volume. If he thinks he can get more, he'll try. If the startion down the street charges less, the customer goes there. that's how it's supposed to work.
Ethanol is a huge scam. It actually costs more than gas but the government pays em to grow corn and pays another subsidy to convert it ethanol. It makes less BTUs per volume, basically it sucks.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Although for now the low prices of E85 (ill-gotten though they might be) make a conversion to one of my vehicles a tempting endevour. Might as well get something out of getting shafted, right?

Be careful you will see a MPG drop of 10% - 35% depending on your engine. (The more efficient your engine, the bigger the drop.)

You really aren't saving anything by buying ethanol--it will take you more ethanol to get where you're going!

[berettafan]

oil is NOT a free market. we have zero control over prices. we are TOLD what we will pay.

i thought there was a non-food based ethanol source in the works?

[Mule]

They need the money to sponsor more race cars.

[Komenda Fan]

Sammy - I don't know if that is true in the US, but I know here in Canada, the stations - which are independently owned - receive a phone call from the oil company telling them the day's price, they don't set their own prices.

Ethanol was something that sounded good in theory, but is a big mess for a variety of reasons. I suspect that admitting the mistake and eliminating it will be all but politically impossible, however...

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Komenda Fan

Sammy - I don't know if that is true in the US, but I know here in Canada, the stations - which are independently owned - receive a phone call from the oil company telling them the day's price, they don't set their own prices.

Ethanol was something that sounded good in theory, but is a big mess for a variety of reasons. I suspect that admitting the mistake and eliminating it will be all but politically impossible, however...

Ethanol never sounded good. It was feel good crap initiated by AL Gore's manbearpig scare tactics.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by berettafan

i thought there was a non-food based ethanol source in the works?

switchgrass(cellulosic ethanol)

Price is going up because it is 85% petroleum based, 15% ethanol(using petroleum to produce and transport)

The ethanol scam is almost as stupid as the tax relief/rebate checks

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by legion

I've said it before, but I am against all forms of socialism. I don't care who benefits: individuals or corporations. Get rid of welfare, get rid of subsidies. They both circumvent the free market to ensure some people don't have to be subjected to the laws of supply and demand.

I wish you were on the campaign trail...and would get elected

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by berettafan

oil is NOT a free market. we have zero control over prices. we are TOLD what we will pay.

While it is not a free market on crude, as consumers we still have control over the demand side of the equation.
Should Americans ever decide to cut the amount of miles driven in their huge cars, trucks, and SUVs, then the oil producers will cut their prices to try and entice us back to our old ways.

Consumers hold the power, but do not use it. Simply having a product to sell does not mean that a consumer will purchase it. The consumer must be enticed; either convinced by marketing, or by perceived necessity. It's not too difficult to do, since many consumers lack the willpower to make the difficult choices in life. We are spoiled and lazy, and it will be our ruin.

Originally Posted by Tobra

Price is going up because it is 85% petroleum based, 15% ethanol(using petroleum to produce and transport)

Your percentages are backward. E-85 designates 85% Ethanol.

The prices are going up because they can. Store owners like profit. Plus, they assume that most consumers believe "gas is gas" and when one goes up, they all go up. And most do.

[legion]

Originally Posted by berettafan

oil is NOT a free market. we have zero control over prices. we are TOLD what we will pay.

Sure it is. Use less of it. See what happens to the price.

Mark my words, the price of oil will crash. It will crash just like the dot-coms and the housing market did before it.

[Jim Richards]

Let's hope so, Chris. Meanwhile, I will keep my demand lower than in the past.