use of electronic devices during Flight

[Sonic dB]

A question to the pilots here... do electronic devices such as cell phones and CD players really interfere with a flight?

I remember reading once, a long time ago...that because CD players operate at 44.1kHz, they can interfere with the communications system of the airline.

So what is the real story on this?

This guy in the link below was a jerk about it:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/051308dnmetpassenger.f2feb5b0.html?npc&nTar=OPUR

[masraum]

mythbusters tested it. Cell phones don't do squat. Mythbusters did get one particular frequency to cause a problem, but I think it was an unusual freq and at much, much higher power than a regular cell phone can xmit.

It's a precaution, and really, would you prefer they were over cautious when you're in a plane or would you prefer them to throw caution to the wind?

[masraum]

mythbusters tested it. Cell phones don't do squat. Mythbusters did get one particular frequency to cause a problem, but I think it was an unusual freq and at much, much higher power than a regular cell phone can xmit.

It's a precaution, and really, would you prefer they were over cautious when you're in a plane or would you prefer them to throw caution to the wind?

[Sonic dB]

i have no problem with the rules...just wondering...
i like Mythbusters, especially the one about the Ice Bullet

[Noah930]

I've heard the ban on cellphones during flight was actually something pushed for by the cellular companies. Supposedly it was too difficult to keep track of the roaming issue whilest up in a plane, so that would have thrown off their billing practices. Don't know if that's true or not, but as mentioned above, apparently it doesn't interfere with actual pilot-ground communications. Admittedly, it's also nice not to be stuck next to a cellphone yakker for 6 hours straight. Don't know about the rest of the electronic devices and their purported interference, though.

[Christien]

I just read somewhere recently that one airline (British Airways, I think?) is now permitting cellphone and wireless (i.e. blackberry) usage during flights. I don't particularly care about calls, but having access to email and internet would sure be nice.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Noah930

I've heard the ban on cellphones during flight was actually something pushed for by the cellular companies. Supposedly it was too difficult to keep track of the roaming issue whilest up in a plane, so that would have thrown off their billing practices. Don't know if that's true or not, but as mentioned above, apparently it doesn't interfere with actual pilot-ground communications. Admittedly, it's also nice not to be stuck next to a cellphone yakker for 6 hours straight. Don't know about the rest of the electronic devices and their purported interference, though.

Heard something similar. But the angle was a plane is traveling so fast that calls would switch towers faster than the system can handle.

[slodave]

They don't cause problems. I use a cell phone from time to time in a plane (private) and nothing happens. If you are cruising at 30,000 + feet, the cell phone would not get a signal, so it has nothing to do with cell towers. Many years ago, it was possible to flood all the towers in an area, making it very hard for others to use the system.

[Jim Sims]

I really wonder what the truth is on this matter; I will conjecture due to carelessness, forgetfulness or just being ornery on any given flight there are several cell phones, computers, Ipods, electronic games etc. left on by accident or on purpose. The aircraft can't possibly be that vulnerable to the emissions from these devices otherwise we wouldn't be allowed to board with them. I suspect something happened to the nav system or autopilot on an obsolescent aircraft when someone played a Walkman in first class; there was an overreaction and now we have the electronic equivalent of "no swimming for an hour after you've eaten otherwise you'll get cramps and drown."

[Dantilla]

I'm a pilot, and called the FAA about this-

They said it's a no-no because it screws up the cell phone companies.

So I called my cell phone company-

They said it's a no-no because it screws up the FAA's stuff.

Bottom line, to get approval to use anything in/around airplanes is difficult. Even though cell phones do not interfere with any of my avionics, it has not been proven to the satisfaction of the FAA that it couldn't, under any circumstance, cause interferance, thus it stays illegal.

Not worth all the hoops to jump through. Lots easier just to say "don't do it."

[Jim Richards]

I imagine the Radio Technical Commission for Aeronautics (RTCA) is the right group to consult to get the official technical position held by the FAA on this matter. Mythbusters are amateurs.

[VaSteve]

Electronics off on Planes??

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by Jim Sims

I really wonder what the truth is on this matter; I will conjecture due to carelessness, forgetfulness or just being ornery on any given flight there are several cell phones, computers, Ipods, electronic games etc. left on by accident or on purpose. The aircraft can't possibly be that vulnerable to the emissions from these devices otherwise we wouldn't be allowed to board with them. I suspect something happened to the nav system or autopilot on an obsolescent aircraft when someone played a Walkman in first class; there was an overreaction and now we have the electronic equivalent of "no swimming for an hour after you've eaten otherwise you'll get cramps and drown."

Jim, you have to think about aggregate level of radio frequency emissions from many passengers using their personal electronic devices in the various phases of flight. I seem to recall that this has been studied in great detail by RTCA. I don't recall the punch line.

[cgarr]

Phones come in handy when your radio takes a *****, I did have to dial up the tower once so I guess they are ok to use, they didn't have a problem with it..

[Porsche-O-Phile]

That's also technically an emergency and the pilot in command has the authority to deviate from any regulation or rule to the extent necessary to deal with that emergency.

You may have however violated other parts of the Federal Regulations falling under the jurisdiction of other agencies (FCC, etc.) but far as the FAA is concerned, you're covered.

I seriously hope you filed an ASRS report for that.

[Jim Richards]

Craig, the original question was related to use of these devices on a commercial airliner. You situation is different, as we all know you're too old to even see your instruments (do you even have more than one?), much less worry about your cell phone throwing them off.

[rudderboost]

Wayne's on to it. We were always told it was an issue with the cell towers and it would only take a few large planes with everyone talking to overload the system. I can also vouch for the "they won't work above +/- 30,000 ft theory. I've tried many times. Your battery also dies really fast when the phone has to search for a signal all the time.

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

it was because the planes were so high up, the cell phones could simultaneously connect to several towers at once (maybe a hundred).

That's what I've read, too. The proposed solution is to install a re-transmitter on the plane that would accept the signal & focus it to specific local towers passing underneath.

The day is coming & the joy of plane travel will suffer because of it.

Ian

[ErVikingo]

I don't know if they cause interference but I really hope they are never allowed for a couple of reasons,

first, it is the only time I can have some peace and quiet from my phone and blackberry. I actually cherish my 8-9 hr flights as a refuge from data overload and

second, I could not stand the noise level in the cabin with tens of people yapping away. Not even my high tech Sony noise cancelling in ear headsets and Ipod could muffle.

[imcarthur]

From Wiki Mobile phones on aircraft

"A few U.S. airlines have announced plans to allow mobile phones to be used on aircraft, pending approval by the FCC and the FAA. The method is similar to that used in some cars on the German ICE train: the aircraft will contain a device known as a picocell. It will act as a miniature mobile telephone tower, communicating with mobile phones within the aircraft, and relaying the signals to either satellites or a terrestrial-based system. The picocell will be designed and maintained for full compatibility with the rest of the on-board avionics. Communication between the picocell and the rest of the telephone network will be on separate frequencies that do not interfere with either the cellular system or the aircraft's avionics, much like the on-board phone systems already aboard many commercial aircraft. Since the picocell's antennas within the aircraft would be very close to the passengers and inside the aircraft's metal shell both the picocell's and the phones' output power could be reduced to very low levels, reducing the chance for interference. Such systems have been tested on a few flights within the United States, under waiver from the FCC.

ARINC and Telenor have formed a joint venture company to offer such a service on board commercial aircraft. The mobile phone calls are routed via satellite to the ground network and an on-board EMI screening system stops the cellphones contacting the ground network.

These systems are comparatively easy to implement for customers in most of the world, where GSM phones operating on either of just two bands are the norm. The multitude of incompatible mobile phone systems in the United States and other countries makes the situation more difficult — it is not clear if the onboard repeaters will be compatible with all of the different cell-phone protocols (TDMA, GSM, CDMA, iDen) and their respective providers.

On 30 August 2006, the Irish low-cost airline Ryanair announced it will introduce a facility to allow passengers to use their mobile phones in-flight.

As of mid April 2007 Qantas have teamed up with Panasonic Avionics Corporation and AeroMobile to commence a three month trial that will "enable customers to send and receive e-mails, access the Internet and send and receive text messages from their own mobile phone"

On 18 October 2007 Ofcom published proposals for the technical and authorisation approach that would be adopted to allow this for European GSM users on the 1800Mz band on UK registered aircraft.

On 20 March 2008, Emirates Airline flights began allowing voice calls in-flight on some commercial airline flights.

The approval by EASA of these systems has established that GSM phones on certified aircraft types are considered safe to use when installed with a on-board cellular picocell.

On 26 March 2008 Ofcom approved the use of mobile phone-supporting picocells aboard aircraft in the United Kingdom. Airline companies will have to equip the aircraft with picocells and apply for licenses."

Ian