entitlements

[RoninLB]

union power took off in the 1970s. One of the most powerful nationwide is the teachers unions. City and county wide teachers, PD, FD, and other municipal unions strongly influences politicians. All that is obvious but what city manager, or city council has the balls to buck the system.

[craigster59]

#10 is sales occupations? What, do they include Iraq?

Salesman: Mohammed, this is the latest in "martyr wear". I know the vest is heavy, but it makes you look fabulous. Hold this button while I measure your inseam.....

[Cdnone1]

Moses
Those may be by statistics the most dangerous job, but I'll bet it has a lot to do with accidental deaths, not, you get your a$$ in that burning building and do a sweep.
I have a friend in Toronto that a couple of weeks ago had to preform CPR (on a 14 year old girl that had hung herself 2 days before) because she had to be pronounced dead by an EMT before he could stop. Unfortunately the EMT's didn't arrive for over and hour since they where busy trying to save people who had a chance at surviving.
They are constantly send out to crash sites to find missing "parts" to complete the morgue reports so people who pull to the side of the road for a leak will not find body parts.
It may not be one of the top ten most dangerous jobs but it sure can take it's toll on the men and women who do it.
I would imagine that you don't offend find Groundskeepers leaning over a dead young girl, pumping on bloated, stinking corpse, while the parents who found her are screaming in the background, getting up and going back to work the next day.
SO SPARE ME " THE OH PLEASE!!!!!"
Steve

[Porsche-O-Phile]

If you don't think flying airplanes can be dangerous, go fly some of the aircraft/routes I used to fly in the Pacific Northwest. . . Nothing like flying in solid (and I mean SOLID) IFR, icing, wind shear, turbulence, etc. Often at night over mountainous terrain in 40-year-old freighters with minimal avionics and "INOP" stickers all over the place.

All so some title companies could get their last-minute work out and not get sued. Stuff like that.

It most certainly IS (or at least CAN BE) dangerous.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by Cdnone1

SO SPARE ME " THE OH PLEASE!!!!!"
Steve

This is why you got the well deserved "OH PLEASE!!!";

Originally Posted by Cdnone1

...anyone who goes to work everyday knowing he could die...
Steve

A salesperson is more likely to die on a business trip than a firefighter. I'm sorry if it kills the fantasy. Modern building design, firefighting equipment and protocols have made the work of the fire department safer than it ever has been.

[tc-sacto]

Originally Posted by RoninLB

union power took off in the 1970s. One of the most powerful nationwide is the teachers unions. City and county wide teachers, PD, FD, and other municipal unions strongly influences politicians. All that is obvious but what city manager, or city council has the balls to buck the system.

Damn straight! Voters couldn't change if we wanted to. The F'ing unions have a strangle hold on California right now. Just try and cut spending or pass a responsible budget by living within the states means and see how they come out with the fangs!

[fintstone]

Firefighters, police, govt employees...if they have such a great deal, why didn't you guys sign up?

Moses...aren't you a doctor?

[Cdnone1]

Moses
I believe I also said run into burning building and something about trauma.
There may be jobs with higher numbers of death/per but the emotional scars are different.
Aren't you a trauma unit Doctor?
Steve

[billyboy]

1) Fishers and Fishing Workers
Deaths per 100,000 workers: 142
Total Deaths: 51

Dangers: Work in all kinds of weather, often hundreds of miles from shore with no help readily available; crew members risk falling on slippery decks, leading to serious injuries or falling overboard; potential hazards include malfunctioning fishing gear and becoming entangled in nets.http://news.thomasnet.com/IMT/archives/2007/09/most_dangerous_jobs_bureau_of_labor_statistics_200 6_2007.htmlI have had several friends die at sea. Just about a month ago a guy was lost here.

[TimT]

A bigger raping of the public is taking place in NY now...

There have been a number of reported instances where a person retires, starts collecting his pension, then is rehired the next day at the same salary,same jpostion, effectively almost doubling income within a day.

And some lawyers who consult for school districts, were able to convince some nit wit that the time the were consulting counted towards a state pension. Some are collecting state pensions and lifetime medical benefits never having been a state employee... merely a hired cousel.... And they defend the practice "because its always been done this way"

Criminal.....

And I believe that people who honestly earned there pensions deserve every penny.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Moses...aren't you a doctor?

I am. I'm not complaining about my job, I'm complaining about the absurd benefits package California firefighters have. It's not sustainable and as Wayne points out, cities may have to declare bankruptcy to get out from under the burden.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by billyboy

[COLOR="Red"]nets.http://news.thomasnet.com/IMT/archives/2007/09/most_dangerous_jobs_bureau_of_labor_statistics_200 6_2007.htmlI

I've got to get more insurance

2) Pilots and Flight Engineers
Deaths per 100,000 workers: 88
Total Deaths: 101

Dangers: Risky conditions are most acute for test pilots, who check equipment for new, experimental planes, as well as crop dusters, who are exposed to toxins and sometimes lack a regular landing strip; helicopter pilots often engage in dangerous rescue.

6) Farmers and Ranchers
Deaths per 100,000 workers: 38
Total Deaths: 291

Dangers: Many farmers operate heavy machinery, the biggest sources of hazards on the job

[widgeon13]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

If you don't think flying airplanes can be dangerous, go fly some of the aircraft/routes I used to fly in the Pacific Northwest. . . Nothing like flying in solid (and I mean SOLID) IFR, icing, wind shear, turbulence, etc. Often at night over mountainous terrain in 40-year-old freighters with minimal avionics and "INOP" stickers all over the place.

All so some title companies could get their last-minute work out and not get sued. Stuff like that.

It most certainly IS (or at least CAN BE) dangerous.

I certainly agree that being a pilot can be dangerous and some missions are much more dangerous than others. Helicopter ops, power line inspection, Ag ops, freight hauling into short unimproved fields. I just don't see piloting/flying as inherently dangerous as firefighting where just leaving the barn puts you in harms way.

This thread could as easily have been about teachers or postal workers or any government employee. Bottomline is that the system is fuched up and while LB may be on the brink of disaster, the same holds true for many other communities in CA and the nation.

[RoninLB]

NYC PD is easy to get hired on. They always need recruits. Come and get it.


think of the job as spiritual enlightenment finding out how big your balls are.

[Dottore]

Milt, can you really blame people for shopping around for jobs that have good pensions? It's nothing that ever occurred to me, but I know that this is something that animates a large number of people.

Where I live for example, judges get very large pensions, and I know lawyers who have sought out judgeships - even though they would make a heck of a lot more more money in private practice - because the big pension at the end of the road is a huge incentive.

One thing I do have a huge problem with is reducing someone's pension retroactively. People plan their retirement around their pensions. If they have a contractual entitlement, and if, for example, they stuck it out at a miserable job because of that entitlement, I think it's just plain wrong to try to feck with that after the fact.

You can always reduce pension entitlements for people that haven't earned them yet. Those people can decide whether or not they want to stay with the job given the reduced entitlements. But once someone's earned their entitlement, taking it away is essentially a breach of contract - and just plain wrong in my view. It's like someone reducing your salary retroactively, after you've already agreed a figure.

[einreb]

Originally Posted by Moses

Nothing against firefighters, but they have a sweet deal. They typically work three days a week, pull in 6 figures and retire with 90% salary plus benefits for life. And they can qualify for this job without a college degree. Not trying to sound harsh, but if you need to have an Oprah-moment for somebody, pick from the list above. Every one listed is more dangerous and they work harder, longer and usually for much less pay.

typically 6 figures and 90% pension my ass.

My dad retired as a district chief (thats pretty high up) from a major metropolitan area. undergrad in construction management and a masters in fire science. I think his salary at retirement was in the low 60's. his pension is somewhere in the 60% range of that I think?

[Porsche_monkey]

People seem to be using the dangerous and unpleasant aspects of the job to justify the pension.

Your salary reflects the job, fine. What justifies the pension?

[Moses]

Originally Posted by einreb

typically 6 figures and 90% pension my ass.

Here's to your ass...

http://calfire.blogspot.com/2007/10/ucfd-firefighters-top-city-salaries.html

UNION CITY — Every full-time Union City firefighter earned more than $100,000 last year and the Fire Department accounted for nearly half of all city employees earning six figures, according to city data.


We are talking about CALIFORNIA firefighters and the absurd retirement package they were given by a desperate Governor.

[pwd72s]

Think I read in the paper here that Vallejo, CA has declared bankruptcy???

[einreb]

Originally Posted by Moses

Here's to your ass...

http://calfire.blogspot.com/2007/10/ucfd-firefighters-top-city-salaries.html

UNION CITY — Every full-time Union City firefighter earned more than $100,000 last year and the Fire Department accounted for nearly half of all city employees earning six figures, according to city data.


We are talking about CALIFORNIA firefighters and the absurd retirement package they were given by a desperate Governor.

you said 'typical'. that is not typical. 'typical' firefighters usually 'wash out' prior to earning a pension. typical firefighters that do retire earn no where near that money.

of course there is a correlation between a city/state going down the tubes and poorly negotiated contracts with civil servants. I'm just saying that the gross generalization that the typical firefighters live high on the hog and retire with a fat pension isn't true.