entitlements

[Zeke]

Afriend of mine (well, he won't be a friend if he reads this) retired from the Long Beach Fire Dept. a few years ago. When he got on, he got a couple years credit for service during the Viet Nam War (he never left the states). In 28 years of service he retired as captain. He was at that rank for maybe 15% of his career. Now, he lives up in Idaho with the rest of the retirees and pulls down 98K/yr in retirement! Forever. With medical. Now this cat ain't that old, 60 IIRC. So he's gonna be on the books for awhile.

Long Beach, like CA in general, is in a huge deficit. The pensions they pay alone are a huge part of the budget. I'm wondering if the city ought to declare bankruptcy and re-deal these excessive pensions. My former friend had to make engineer before he could be a captain, so I bet he could drive a farm tractor pretty well (he's initially from Iowa ). Or run a backhoe.

It gets better. His wife, whom he met at the hospital when he was a paramedic, is an RN. She probably worked as an RN for 5 years before going into management. Last I knew, after they relocated to IA, she was the County Coroner. That's gotta pay pretty good, even in BF'dE. She may be retired now too, I don't know.

Whaddya think? We sit here as the poorest city in CA, 6th poorest in the US (pop 100K+) and we pay 1000's of pensions, some as high as 90% of salary at retirement. I'd pull the rug out in a heartbeat. If the rest of the country is gonna go hungry, I'll be damned if this guy is "entitled" to almost 100K every year.

[Buckterrier]

I think life sucks then you die. No really... Life sucks then you die.
Some days peanuts someday shells.
I'm with you. I don't understand 'government entitlements' at all. But then they vote this crap for themselves so what should we expect.

[widgeon13]

Is it his fault or the fault of the elected officials that approved the budgets and retirement benefits. Since being a fireman is pretty dangerous stuff and since LB is pretty dangerous place, perhaps he deserves the 98K.

I'm not familiar w/ LB so not sure how things work out there, just asking the question?

[legion]

Did he retire to Idaho or Iowa?

I have a big problem with pensions being renegotiated after the fact. If an employer (be it a government entity or a corporation) made a promise, they should have to keep it. They should make the appropriate changes for current employees.

The other side of the coin might be that they needed to offer ridiculous benefits to attract employees in the first place.

[Cdnone1]

Sorry Milt, but anyone who goes to work everyday knowing he could die, who's job it is, is to go into burning buildings to pull out people he doesn't even know deserves everything he gets.
I have several friends who are fire fighters and I don't think most of them retire without carrying some pretty serious baggage from their work.
Steve

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Agree with Chris mostly. Yes, I think the pensions are hurting the city but they were promised to people and therefore they should be paid out as promised. Period. No buts.

That said, I think it's idiotic to keep the same pension system in place today. It's completely unsustainable and simply pushes the burden onto the next generation - something government (federal, state AND local) has gotten far too habitual about doing.

Either pay the guys now with the resources you have now, or don't. No more of this funny business about "borrowing against future rises in inflation" or other crap. It's a Ponzi scheme when you get right down to it.

[Buckterrier]

Aren't government pensions pretty much standard fair everywhere?

[RoninLB]

25-35 yrs ago many of these high pension jobs were not desirable for the actual pay they served out. Either you sought pension bennys as a mail man, cop, LA DWP, FD or you sought out hard pay to afford that new car.

[Zeke]

Let me put it another way. First of all, I understand the perils of firefighting, police work and more. On a 4 story scaffold, I've taken a risk or 2 myself. But, when I draw Social Security I will be allowed a whopping 13K in income before I'm docked (according to my tax guy). I'm just wondering if my buddy (who is in ID not IA) could *squeak* by on a little less since his wife was...oh I'll stop right there. They're making 200K together and have no need for that kind or money.

If ol' buddy had gone to school and made a career in business and put some away, I'd be cool with this. But since he knew if he could make captain before retiring, he wouldn't have to put dick away and he didn't. He's had more ridiculous off road trucks and boats than anyone ever needed. Plus, he had a side job as well since fire fighters work 11 24 hr shifts a month. He had 20 other days to build hot rods for others.

I say the 98K gets docked for every additional 50K he brings in now as a joint filer.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by Cdnone1

Sorry Milt, but anyone who goes to work everyday knowing he could die, who's job it is, is to go into burning buildings to pull out people he doesn't even know deserves everything he gets.
I have several friends who are fire fighters and I don't think most of them retire without carrying some pretty serious baggage from their work.
Steve

Oh, PLEASE!

10 most dangerous jobs in America;

1. Timber cutters
2. Airplane pilots
3. Construction laborers
4. Truck drivers
5. Farm occupations
6. Groundskeepers
7. Laborers
8. Police and detectives
9. Carpenters
10. Sales occupations

It is more dangerous to be a salesperson that a firefighter. Nothing against firefighters, but they have a sweet deal. They typically work three days a week, pull in 6 figures and retire with 90% salary plus benefits for life. And they can qualify for this job without a college degree. Not trying to sound harsh, but if you need to have an Oprah-moment for somebody, pick from the list above. Every one listed is more dangerous and they work harder, longer and usually for much less pay.

[widgeon13]

Why don't you just have a discussion with the guy since you think he has too much. See if he will just carve some out for you, you said he's not going to be your friend anymore after this anyway. Just go right for the jugular. Is it just the 98K that bothers you now or did you have this disdain for him all along and the 98K just pushed you over the top.

There are folks I know who obviously have had some really good financial breaks that I have not stumbled across. Their wealth makes my financial situation seem like I'm a pauper. I try not to dwell on their good fortune but instead be appreciative for what I have. Life goes on, someone will always have more than you, the goal is just to not let it eat away at your gut and ruin your life.

Once again, I blame the system much more than the individual. I guess I could understand your position better if the situation was based on corrupt business or government practices.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

Why don't you just have a discussion with the guy since you think he has too much. See if he will just carve some out for you, you said he's not going to be your friend anymore after this anyway. Just go right for the jugular. Is it just the 98K that bothers you now or did you have this disdain for him all along and the 98K just pushed you over the top.

There are folks I know who obviously have had some really good financial breaks that I have not stumbled across. Their wealth makes my financial situation seem like I'm a pauper. I try not to dwell on their good fortune but instead be appreciative for what I have. Life goes on, someone will always have more than you, the goal is just to not let it eat away at your gut and ruin your life.

Once again, I blame the system much more than the individual. I guess I could understand your position better if the situation was based on corrupt business or government practices.

I think he's lamenting the grossly misspent PUBLIC MONEY. The firefighters benefit package is an unwarranted and shameful waste of public resources.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Aren't government pensions pretty much standard fair everywhere?

No. Gray Davis cut the firefighters a sweetheart deal in order to save his political future. It failed, but it looks like the taxpayers will be picking up the tab forever.

[widgeon13]

Originally Posted by Moses

Oh, PLEASE!

10 most dangerous jobs in America;

1. Timber cutters
2. Airplane pilots
3. Construction laborers
4. Truck drivers
5. Farm occupations
6. Groundskeepers
7. Laborers
8. Police and detectives
9. Carpenters
10. Sales occupations

It is more dangerous to be a salesperson that a firefighter. Nothing against firefighters, but they have a sweet deal. They typically work three days a week, pull in 6 figures and retire with 90% salary plus benefits for life. And they can qualify for this job without a college degree. Not trying to sound harsh, but if you need to have an Oprah-moment for somebody, pick from the list above. Every one listed is more dangerous and they work harder, longer and usually for much less pay.

Your list may very well be accurate but keep in mind that in many communities, firefighter are volunteers, volunteer firefighters comprise about 80% of all firefighters. They get no pay.

Don't know where the list came from but airplane pilot is not considered a dangerous job.

[boba]

Who voted for those politicians anyway, and is still putting them in office?

That's who you should turn your anger on. Not the person who took the job, did the work and expected that the contract he was offered be honored.

It may have been a bad deal for the taxpayers but they let it happen, they voted for it over and over.

BTW life is not fair.

[widgeon13]

"Unless you live in a large urban area, or highly populated suburban community, chances are that you, your family and possessions are protected by volunteer firefighters and rescue personnel. In fact, current statistics show that of this nation’s 1,100,000 firefighters and EMT’s*, fully 80% serve in a volunteer capacity, protecting just over 20% of the total US population.

America’s volunteer Firefighters and EMT’s are extraordinary people…period. Why? That’s simple -- they work at this nation’s most dangerous profession FOR FREE! And you will likely never meet a group of individuals more consumed by an avocation, because theirs is a mission of supreme importance -- to save lives and limit damage to property. They are dedicated to the core and prove it day in and day out by placing their own lives on the line to protect those of others."

[RoninLB]

appx 100 FD die on the job/year

appx 50 PD die on the job/year

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Moses

I think he's lamenting the grossly misspent PUBLIC MONEY. The firefighters benefit package is an unwarranted and shameful waste of public resources.

Thank you. And, there's a bit more to it, but it does not stem from jealousy. In fact, I wouldn't trade straight across if I had to be him.

I just don't see this as right given the current circumstances with the economy.

[RoninLB]

[Moses]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

Your list may very well be accurate but keep in mind that in many communities, firefighter are volunteers, volunteer firefighters comprise about 80% of all firefighters. They get no pay.

Don't know where the list came from but airplane pilot is not considered a dangerous job.

1) Milt was not discussing a volunteer firefighter. Different story alltogether.

2) Most pilots are flying small aircraft. They go down all the time.