Boat engine seized. What to do?

[Aurel]

I wonder if anyone had this happen to them, and how they handled it:

Last fall, I paid by check the marina to winterize by boat motor (4.3L V6 OMC). They`re supposed to run antifreeze, spray the carb intakes with oil, and fill the spark plug holes with oil.

This morning, I go to start the motor with a fully charged battery, and no way to make it turn. I tried to turn it by hand with a wrench in the crank pulley. It would not budge.
Last season, I had no problem starting it after winterizing.

Could this be hydraulic lock from the oil in the cylinders, in which case I should remove the spark plugs?

Or,

If the marina did not winterize properly, then it will be costly, and clearly their responsibility, but how to go about it?

Thanks for any advice,

Aurel

[Mo_Gearhead]

QUOTE: " ...and FILL the spark plug holes with oil."
__________

Are you serious?

If they indeed FILLED the cylinders with oil (not just misted) you have 'hydraulic lock'.

Pull spark plugs and crank engine to pump it out!
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I can't imagine a Certified Dealer/Marina doing that ...however if you insisted and some kid/mechanic took you at your word...?

[kmhemi]

I'd pull the plugs and see if it will turn over then. I have a jet boat and it did the same thing. After I pulled the motor it spun free. It wound up being a siezed bearing in the lower unit (jet drive) I rebuilt it and havent had any trouble since. Keep us posted on what happens.

[Aurel]

I pulled the sparks plugs and I think the picture below speaks for itself. If they are corroded like that, chances are my cylinders and pistons are the same. A mist of oil in there sure would have prevented that.



Then I spoke to grandson of the owner of the marina and showed him the plug, and he admitted that they fired the mechanic, who was a deadbeat stealing from them, now living on his truck. I guess I should be happy if my block isn`t cracked.

To make it right, he said he will reimburse me the $850 fee I just paid to the marina, and he will speak to his grandpa who`s got lots of money (as anyone who pays deadbeat mechanics under the table would). Now, I have to get quotes for a rebuild of that motor, and if I play it right, I may end up with an overhauled motor and a free boating season (except for the gas) .

Aurel

[Jim Richards]

I hope they come through for you and make this right. It sucks to miss part of the season while they fix your engine. Now, you really out to be thinking about a sailboat instead of a stinkpot power boat. You could be out on the water right now.

[Zeke]

It appears that the motor is full of water. How could that happen? It almost seems intentional and I wouldn't hesitate to mention that.

[MRM]

It got full of water from sitting outside in the winter without being winterized properly. Sorry to hear about it. Let us know how it turns out.

[VINMAN]

Pull the plugs, try to crank it by hand. Like Milt said It look like the engine was filled with water. Thats an awful lot of corrosion for just not being fogged.

[scottmandue]

I am no expert but if it is that corroded shouldn't he spray some breaking oil (PB blaster, liquid wrench) in there and let it soak in before trying to spin the engine?

[Aurel]

No way I can crank it by hand, even with a two ft breaker bar on my wrench. I wonder how water could have gotten inside the cylinders. There is a cover on the motor, and a cover on the boat. Only thing I can think of is a blown head gasket, but the motor was running fine before winterizing. I am going to let a pro handle it from now on anyways. Got enough on my plate with rebuildling my 3.0L SC motor...

Aurel

[VINMAN]

What kind of marine engine is it?

[widgeon13]

no way did they winterize that engine, looks like they put it up, didn't even drain the block, cracked the block from being frozen and now you have water in at least in one cylinder and hyro lock.

Never should have happened, they didn't do shlt to that engine last fall.

Good luck on getting that covered.

[billh1963]

$850 is a lot of money to winterize something. You can do it yourself and save a lot of $$. It's not that hard.

Here is a very comprehensive list...most mechanics don't do a thorough job (as you have found out):

Winterizing your engine and drive.

Winterizing your boats engine and drive is a lot of work. Not doing it or doing it improperly WILL be very expensive to fix , and that is also a lot of work.
Plan on giving yourself the full day to winterize your boat, and don't wait till the last minute to do the job. As difficult as winterizing can be on some boats, doing it when it's 35ş outside, snowing or raining, windy and in the dark is not something you want to do.
Read and think about everything you are about to do before you start, and plan for it. Tools, parts, helpers, (oh yea) even if just to hand you stuff and talk with you. Make a checklist if it'll help.
All set? Here we go.

Before you start the engine, add fuel stabilizer to the fuel tank. If possible, put in the stabilizer on the last trip of the season and top off the fuel tank before you get to your driveway or where the boat will be stored. This will allow the stabilizer to mix completely in the tank.

You do have your Service manuals for the engine and drive handy, don't you?
If not you are looking for trouble.

A few things you will need to have:
Get all your parts together before you start. Filters, gaskets, o-rings, seals, etc.
Note: (Gaskets, o-rings, and seals are not reusable, they may look like it, but they are a one time use item. )
Look at your manual before hand and know what types of grease, oils, lubes, gear lube, sealers, fogging oil, etc. you are going to need and have them on hand and ready.
Have the tools needed to do the job. Including filter wrenches, alignment bars etc.
Plenty of rags and oil absorbent pads

1. Start by hooking up a corrosion inhibitor to the muffs inline with the water, an example would be the Salt-Away mixing unit. This will do several things. Warm and mix the oil for changing, and flush the cooling system if you have been running in salt or brackish water.
2. After running, change oil, filter.
3. Change fuel filter/s, be sure to check the contents of the filter. If there is around a 1/4 of the contents water, you should drain the water out of the tank. (That won't be covered here)
4. Check the antifreeze level and be sure it's in the proper temperature range. -35 degrees is a normal 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water.
5a. Remove the Outdrive. (Mercruiser, OMC, and Volvo DP-S and SX)
Check ALL the bellows. if any of them look weather cracked or seem excessively stiff or weak, replace them. A leaky u-joint bellows ruins gimbal bearings and u-joints and drives if allowed to keep leaking.
On Mercruiser, OMC, and Volvo DP-S and SX style drives check the engine alignment (If you are going to do your own work, you MUST have an alignment bar)
5b. For those with the Volvo 270 through 290 style drives. Remove the upper gear box and check the bellows and u-joints. The bellows are not as strong as the Merc and OMC bellows so replace them every couple of years just to be safe. If they go bad, you must pull the engine to change the intermediate bearings in the bell housing. Be sure you don't loose the shims between the upper gear box and the intermediate housing.
6. Check the gimbal bearing. Does it turn smooth? if not replace it. Check the u-joints do they feel smooth also? Any catches indicates they are worn and should be replaced. If ok, grease the zirks or pull the plugs (if equipped) and lube them.
7. Was there any gear lube in the bellows when you removed the drive? If so, the input shaft seal is leaking and should be fixed before reinstalling the drive.
8. Drain the gear lube from the drive and refill per manufacturers specs. ALWAYS use new gaskets and o-rings on drain, fill, and vent plugs and dipstick fittings and plugs, along with new gaskets and seals for mounting the drive back on the boat. Don't forget to remove the gear lube monitor (if equipped) and clean it. The gear lube will form sludge in the bottom after a couple of years. Clean it yearly and you won't have a problem.

NOTE: For those with Mercruiser Alpha drives. If you are planning on changing the impeller, now is the time to do it. Since you must remove the lower unit to get to the pump, no reason to put in new gear lube till it's done.

9. Remove the prop and check for any fishing line around the prop shaft (very common problem, even for those that don't fish), clean and grease the shaft with a good quality marine waterproof grease prior to reinstalling the prop. Any kind of grease is better than none at all. And if you remove your prop yearly, you should never have a problem with the type grease you use.
(DO NOT use Neversieze) it may be great for cars, trucks, tractors etc. but in the boating business we call it "Eversieze".
If you notice nicks, dings or bends in the prop blades, now would be an ideal time to send the prop out to a prop shop for repairs.

10. Reinstall the drive per the manual. (new gaskets and seals, right)

11. Check the batteries, is the acid level where it should be? Are they fully charged? A low charged battery can freeze and crack and make a very big mess.
Terminal ends clean and greased.

12. Start the engine, make sure the oil filter doesn't leak, fuel filter doesn't leak and the drive still shifts and run it till it warms up. All ok, GOOD. Now it's time to make it safe for cold weather.

13. Bring the rpm up to around 1500 rpm and start squirting fogging oil into the carb till the rpms drop and you are getting a lot of smoke out the exhaust. Then shut off the engine. If the engine diesels, restart it fog some more, make sure the idle is very low and shut it off again. You don't want water backed up into the cylinders from running backwards.

14. Disconnect the water and muffs and allow the water to drain out of the drive. Now get your manual and remove every drain plug on your engine, manifolds, coolers, heat exchangers, water pumps, and anything else that could have RAW water in it. DO NOT drain the anti-freeze side of a closed cooling system. Look at the book and make sure you have them all removed. Look around, missing one could cost you an engine block. Get a small screwdriver and probe inside every hole you remove a plug from. Make sure there is nothing blocking the water from getting out. Be sure the engine is also as level as possible so as much water as possible is drained out. Some of the coolers for oil and power steering can be drained by removing a hose easier than removing the plugs.
Put all the plugs back in and hoses back on.
If you are one of those that must use antifreeze instead of just draining, for whatever reason, you can fill the block and manifolds with a 50/50 water/antifreeze mix through the hoses to the manifolds and coolers and removing the thermostat and pouring antifreeze into the engine block. Many of the RV type antifreeze do not have corrosion inhibitors in them because they are meant to be used in the domestic water system.

15. Spray your favorite corrosion blocker on everything (except fiberglass).including the battery terminals. Turn the steering so most of the rod is extended, make sure it's clean and spray it with a light oil, turn it back and forth a few times spraying in between so it's well lubed.

16. Store the boat with the bow up and the drive down. If the drive is up the exhaust part of the drive behind the prop can fill with water, freeze and crack.......Not Good!
It's also a lot easier on the u-joint bellows to have it in the down position.

17. Shut off (Better yet, disconnect) the batteries. Tag the cables and wires so you know where to put them back in the spring (trust me on tagging them).

18. Don't forget the rest of the boat, this is only for the engine and drive. There is still the domestic water system and the head to deal with if you have them.

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[Aurel]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

What kind of marine engine is it?

4.3L OMC V6. The mech I spoke to says it is not worth rebuilding (or he doesn`t want to...) but putting in a new one would be $6,000. This is out of the question, since I paid $4,500 for the boat. And, now, the grandfather who is not as nice as his grandson, is trying to get out of it by saying that they did not hire the mechanic, they just let him work on their property. And I learnt he was on crack...I did not hire this guy, I gave a check at the counter to have my boat winterized. Now, another mech is going to estimate the repair costs, and if the marina does not want to fit some of the bill, I`ll have take other measures. This really sucks.

Aurel

[Aurel]

Btw, $850 is the fee to leave the boat on trailer at the marina. The winterization was $175. And it looks like the "mechanic" bought $175 worth of crack.

Aurel

[billh1963]

A "new" longblock is under $3K

Here is one.... http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=156153F

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Cripes. Just store the boat inside somewhere above freezing during the winter months and start it/run it once a month with one of those dual suction-cup things over the water intakes connected to a hose.

That's what we used to do back east. AFAIK the original Mercury outboard still runs great after all these years.

Given how much marinas charge for "winterizing" and storage, it's actually cost-effective to stick it in a garage or heated storage place for a few months.

One nice thing about Socal I guess - there is no need to winterize. Ever.

[deanp]

What does the invoice/receipt say for the work performed? Who was the check made out to? Surely he can't argue against a copy of the receipt / work order from his marina along with canceled check made out to his company?

[Aurel]

Originally Posted by deanp

What does the invoice/receipt say for the work performed? Who was the check made out to? Surely he can't argue against a copy of the receipt / work order from his marina along with canceled check made out to his company?

Nah, that is where they try to get out of it. The check was made for cash, handed to his employee at the counter, and there was no work order per se. They say they were just "helping" this mechanic by letting him work there, and did not make any money out of it. My mistake, their mistake, and the deabeat mech is not worth going after...

Aurel

[VINMAN]

Without the work order and paying cash you are SOL. That sucks. This is the reason nobody touches my boats but me.