it's crunch time......relocating

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

No *****.

Valdosta - I have been shot by so much Radar and Laser by the GHP when driving through there in my 911 I probably have brain tumors from it.



If you ever are on the East coast I95 through Georgia is bad too, lots of pseudo construction zones with lowered speed limits and doubled speeding fines with lots of speed traps.

Bell - your going to love the backroads out there in Ocala, once your settled in take a drive up to Georgia in your 911 on 441. Its a nice drive.

[berettafan]

Always exciting to be making changes! Good luck in your new home.

[pwd72s]

Bell, have you learned to talk "southern"??? Hope all goes well...

[bell]

tonite christian (a quiet boom) and i took all the furniture which didn't sell at the yard sale over to his new house he is revamping......we also took the 911 over and hid her in the garage, felt kinda weird knowing i won't see it for a few months, but it's in good hands.......
we are just about packed up and ready to load the truck on friday, i've already bribed a few of the guys at work with pizza and beer to help me load up friday night, should be interesting as even though we purged a ton of stuff we still have a good amount to move.....including my yamaha blaster 350 and it's small trailer, couch, bed, big tv, toolbox, stuff i can't think of, and a whole bunch o' boxes.
the downside is when i pull into the new place i'm on my own to unload....still working on that, if i can slide it down the ramp from the back of the truck i should be in good shape

also my last day at the shop is saturday, they're starting to realize the impact of my leaving.......so there are 2 very big systems (think 10k each with lots of custom work) which i am trying to get done (the hard stuff at least) for them by saturday, they've been good to me for the past 8 years with the exception of a few things so i'll do what i can to soften the blow

[Danny_Ocean]

Not sure if this was mentioned previously, but...did you sell your (OH) home? Renting it out? I'm getting ready to do the same move (OUT of FLA) and can't sell the house.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Bell, have you learned to talk "southern"??? Hope all goes well...

IIRC, only north FL is part of the South, the rest is transplanted Noo Yawkas and Midwesterners. Oh yeah, in the Winter expect an invasion of snow birds, a species that calls eastern Canada its home.

[TerryBPP]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

IIRC, only north FL is part of the South, the rest is transplanted Noo Yawkas and Midwesterners. Oh yeah, in the Winter expect an invasion of snow birds, a species that calls eastern Canada its home.

Ocala my friend is about as country as it gets. Lots of horse ranches, cattle farms, etc. Economy is very good though, reminds me of Augusta GA.

[id10t]

Oh actually Ocala isn't that bad... for true country, head over to Dunnellon, Williston, come up to Micanopy, Alachua, High Springs, etc.

[RoninLB]

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

? I'm getting ready to do the same move (OUT of FLA) and can't sell the house.

Some Buy a New Home to Bail on the Old Fannie Plans Rules To Avoid Practice Described as Fraud

By NICK TIMIRAOS
WSJ; June 11, 2008; Page A3


Next month, Michelle Augustine plans to walk away from her four-bedroom house in a Sacramento, Calif., subdivision and let the property fall into foreclosure. But before doing so, she hopes to lock in the purchase of another home nearby.

"I can find the same exact house as what I live in right now for half the price," says Ms. Augustine, 44 years old, who runs a child-care service out of her home. She says she soon will be unable to afford her monthly payments, which will jump to $4,000 from $3,300 in August, and she doesn't want to continue to own a home that is now worth $200,000 less than what she paid for it two years ago.

In markets hit hardest by falling home prices and rising foreclosures, lenders and brokers are discovering a new phenomenon: the "buy and bail," in which borrowers with good credit buy a new home -- often at a much lower price -- then bail out of the "upside down" mortgage on their first home.

Homeowners are able to pull off this gambit -- which some lenders and real-estate agents call mortgage fraud -- by taking advantage of mortgage-lending practices that allow them to buy a new primary residence before their existing residence has been sold. And with the lending industry in disarray as it tries to restructure millions of mortgages, some boast they are able to pull off the strategy with ease.

In some cases, homeowners are coached through the buy-and-bail process by real-estate agents and brokers who see nothing wrong with it. Some blame the phenomenon in part on lenders' unwillingness to cut deals or restructure loans made when home prices were inflated. "It's just a business decision," says Linda Caoili, a Sacramento real-estate agent who is working with Ms. Augustine and others who are considering walking away from their mortgages. "If you're upside-down $250,000, why would you keep it? It just doesn't make sense."

To be sure, walking away from a mortgage, even if legal, has plenty of drawbacks: Borrowers lose the ability to take out unsecured loans, since foreclosures can stay on a credit report for seven years. In some states, lenders can sue for assets, including a new house. Fannie Mae, the government-sponsored mortgage underwriter, recently revised the amount of time borrowers with a foreclosure must wait to receive a home loan to five years from four. Proposed Fannie Mae guidelines, which could take effect later this month, also would require those borrowers to make a 10% down payment and meet a minimum credit score after the five-year period.

While buy-and-bail is on the rise, the practice doesn't appear to be widespread. Credit is much tighter now than it was during the real-estate boom, and most families with an upside-down mortgage likely will hold on to their homes and hope the market improves in the future -- even though many of them could lose their properties.

Still, with home prices falling rapidly in some parts of the country, a growing number of frustrated consumers are willing to take the risk -- especially in so-called nondeficiency states such as California and Arizona, where it is more difficult for a lender to sue consumers who walk away from their mortgages. Borrowers who bought or refinanced their home with a personal line of credit, however, instead of a home-purchase loan -- a common practice during the housing boom -- could be sued by a lender in those states. Borrowers also could be on the hook if lenders can show that homeowners committed fraud by misrepresenting themselves on their loan application.

Yet even in cases in which a lender could attach a lien on the new home, some homeowners simply assume that lenders are too swamped. "So many people are foreclosing, is it cost effective for lenders to go after all of these people?" says Steve Hawks, a Las Vegas real-estate agent who handles lender-owned properties.

That works in the favor of borrowers such as Blair Morrow. Last year, he rented out his Sacramento home when he moved to Houston for a new job, but he lost those renters in February. He quickly arranged to buy a new home in Houston, fearing that his old residence would be foreclosed and he would take a big hit on his credit.

"I had 30 days to make a decision: Live in a rental house the rest of my life or buy a house and walk away from the one in California," says Mr. Morrow, 56, who works at a car dealership. He wrestled with the decision for a while, but justified it once Countrywide Financial Corp., the lender for his first home, approved the new home loan. "Countrywide didn't say peep," he says. Countrywide didn't return calls seeking comment.

Ms. Augustine, the Sacramento day-care provider, became a first-time homeowner in November 2006 by taking out two loans with nothing down to cover the $426,000 home purchase. With her home valued at about $220,000 now, she is actively looking in nearby communities for another one to buy before the bank forecloses on her current home.

The mortgage industry is starting to wise up to the practice and is scrambling to fight back. Buy-and-bail is "certainly fraudulent and unfortunately on an uptick," says Gwen Muse-Evans, vice president for credit policy and controls at Fannie Mae. Although she doesn't have data to quantify the size and scope of the trend, Ms. Muse-Evans says overwhelming anecdotal reports have prompted the agency to draft tougher regulations aimed at closing one big loophole that allows underwater homeowners to qualify for new home loans.

That loophole currently works like this: Homeowners provide a rental agreement showing that they will rent out their first home, and underwriters allow rental income to cover as much as 75% of the mortgage payments on the first home when determining whether the borrower can make payments on two homes. This allows homeowners to secure a second mortgage that they might not otherwise afford.

Under revised Fannie Mae guidelines, which could take effect next week, loan applicants who claim they will rent out their first home will have to produce supporting evidence, including an executed lease agreement. Borrowers also will have to prove that they can pay the mortgage, property taxes and insurance for both residences. The guidelines will make an exception only for borrowers who have at least 30% equity in their current home.

Of course, many individuals still can qualify for that second loan because of a strong credit and cash position. If they "have the intention of fraud, then at the end of the day there's really little you can do to totally prevent that," says Ms. Muse-Evans.

Some private lenders aren't waiting for Fannie's lead. In April, underwriters handling bank-owned properties at IndyMac Bancorp Inc. told brokers they would require borrowers purchasing new homes while retaining their existing home as a rental to prove that they could make full payments on both homes to qualify for a loan. A memo sent to a Southern California broker said the policy change was prompted by "losses from individuals walking away from properties after the acquisition of a new home."

An IndyMac spokesman said the bank hadn't changed its policies and had always "underwritten loans with an eye towards insuring that our borrowers could readily rent out their current property and/or reasonably support both payments."

Realtors say the new guidelines could put further pressure on sales, but Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the National Association of Realtors, says the impact of such guidelines on sales would be marginal. He calls Fannie Mae's response appropriate because any artificial increase in home sales hurts the average consumer.

Meanwhile, Mr. Hawks, the Las Vegas broker, says he receives one to two dozen inquiries every week from individuals inquiring about a buy-and-bail. "People are starting to ask how much their good credit is worth," particularly when their home is underwater by hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The tactic doesn't appeal to people such as John Ristuccia, a 48-year-old Buckeye, Ariz., paper-company sales director whose job was moved to Houston in August. He is trying to complete a "short sale" for $425,000 on his five-bedroom, 4,000-square-foot home, which was appraised for $800,000 last year. In a short sale, a lender allows the sale of property for less than the amount due on the outstanding loan and often forgives the remaining debt.

Even though he might be able to qualify for a second home loan, Mr. Ristuccia says he wouldn't consider sticking his bank with his suburban Phoenix property. "Just personally I've got a problem with that," he says. "I really can't put it in terms other than it feels wrong."

[berettafan]

'People are starting to ask how much good credit is worth'

Quite a statement.

Pretty amazing that a bank would make a 2nd bad loan to the same person (by bad loan i mean one that doesn't meet basic fundamental reqmts). Might be because they aren't run by 'bankers' but rather by 'paycheck collectors'. BIG difference.

[bell]

next time i'm using smaller boxes..........house is 90% packed, basement carpet is clean (i had a bunch of fish tanks) and all the trash (stuff we're purging) from the house is on the curb, next wave in about 5 minutes is all the stuff outside goes to the curb, yes it's 12:25 am....i'm tired but have to grind on.......
tomorrow is final packing of everything but the bed, so friday right after work the truck can be loaded and i can get a solid nights sleep before the sat workday and the drive down.........did i mention i'm beat? LOL

[Rick Lee]

One of the best night's sleep I ever had was when I finished my move from my Alexandria to my Fairfax house. I did it all alone with the exception of some help with two couches. The night I got my bed assembled will remain one my best memories. I sleep so terribly anyway and that night was like years worth of sleep in one. I woke up and felt a few years older. The next best night's sleep I ever had was the night after I had run the Berlin Marathon in pouring rain and slept in the car near the starting line the night of the race.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by RoninLB

Some Buy a New Home to Bail on the Old Fannie Plans Rules To Avoid Practice Described as Fraud

I'm not hurtin...just don't want to be a long-distance owner. So, did Bell sell his OH home or what? Buying a new one in Ocala?

[A Quiet Boom]

Well I'm actually kinda sad about the whole thing even though I'll be storing brian's 911 most of the summer. I was over at the new house tonight and looking at the car brought back a lot of good memories of the two of us goofing around with cars and such. I know this is what he wants and a good career move but it's still sad to see a good friend move away. Good luck with the move brian, I'll be sure to give the 911 her weekly dosage of twisties on the gentle side so she's ready when you come back to get her. The county sheriff across the street and the other neighbors are on notice that I'm moving valuables into the house now, including your car, they all reassured me they'll keep a good eye out. The house next to me just sold to another nice couple and all the neighbors are really happy these two beautiful old homes are going to be occupied again. Big change from my current neighborhood. Sure you'll have room for my family of six when we visit?

[bell]

just got done filling the treelawn i brought our work p/u home to move most everything that was heavy.....i.e. crap i'm not taking to florida and the stuff which didn't sell at the yard sale.....a quick call to the city in the am and it'll all be gone by noon (for a whooping $30)...small price to pay.
all the cloths, dishes, and such i dropped off at a local church....they were happy

i'm currently a renter danny....i was one of the people who DIDN'T get suckered into a spooky mortgage a few years ago.
right now michelle and i have minimal debt, when we figure out where we want to spend a good chunk of our years together we will buy a house, until then we happily rent, we are a landlords dream.....NEVER pay late, things are kept up, and we don't ***** about little stuff......

[bell]

christian....we'll sleep outside with the gators and let the girls have the house LOL
this whole thing happened so quick, it sucks moving away from all my friends......i wasn't really prepared for it but if we don't do it now we never will...........an unfortunate reality of life.
but hey.....we have free long distance on our phones, this bbs, and fed-ex for shipping stuff back and forth
dougie will be a good "replacement" when you need help with the crazy **** we were doing, don't hesitate to call him if you need a hand

[bell]

good stuff....make the call to the city for my "special trash pickup" at 8:15am......at 8:16 the truck is out front disposing the trash

[Jim Richards]

once again, good luck with the move and best wishes to you and michelle in FL.

[bell]

thanks jim

picked up our 16' penske truck this morning, they didn't send a tow dolly, they sent a trailer and didn't charge me the extra cost
also this thing is brand new, has about 3000 miles on it with cd player, a/c and all.
we are about 85% loaded everything but our bed will be in there tonite, then tomorrow throw in the bed and i head in for my last day at work, then hit the road.
i'll be turning in my cable box/modem tomorrow at lunch so i won't be able to post any pics (only taking camera phone pics anyway LOL) until i get the cable hooked up at the new townhouse next week.
i can post from my phone so i'll throw up some updates as the move transpires

and my fish tanks should be gone tonite, called up the kid who bout the other 75 and made a killer deal to him, hopefully he'll come through, if not they're getting "donated" to my friends non-profit fish rescue organization which i'll get a big reciept for so i can claim the donation on my taxes (along with our relocation costs)

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by bell

picked up our 16' penske truck

That is really moving lite. I don't know if my stuff has ever fit in a 16ft since I got married. And we throw out anything we don't use 3 times a year.....