LIVID--TWO incidents at the range today...

[legion]

I went trap shooting today. I took two people (husband and wife) with me that hadn't shot before. We had seven people--three couple and another friend. Aside from the couple mentioned above, all I had gone shooting with before.

I got to the range an hour early so that I could give a lecture on proper range etiquette, how to operate each firearm (I had brought my single shot, pump, semi-auto, and over/under), and how to play a round of trap.

I've done this dozens of times. I've never had an issue.....until today. I've been a member of the range for three years and it is VERY important to me to keep in the good graces of the owners as this is the only range within 50 miles of my home.

One of the newbies had poor trigger discipline and ended up discharging the shotgun as he was shouldering it. He shot the grass between the shooting line and the trap house. He was immediately given a safety lecture by the owner's son (they tend to keep an eye on new shooters--and I had let them know that we had new shooters in our group). His trigger discipline improved but I still didn't have confidence in him. Later I caught him loading too early and walking from position five to position one with a shell in his shotgun (though the action was open).

Later, as my wife was closing the action on her semi-auto, she discharged her shotgun...right into the box of shells she has on the ground. I was in position one and she was in position four, and I couldn't see the mess from where I was standing with the microphones and buckets for empty shells in the way. It wasn't until one of my experiences friends (who was in position five) said to my wife: "Are you going to clean that up?", that I realized something had happened. Fortunately, she did not hit any of the primers in the box.

I walked over to her and threw her box of damaged shells in the trash and said to her: "You're done." The guy who had had the earlier incident also elected to leave the game. We finished the game with three, experienced shooters without incident. After the game, I decided that we were done for the day.

Now, I was (AM) livid. In my opinion, firearm "accidents" do not happen, but are the result of people not treating them with the proper respect and taking appropriate safety precautions.

After the game, I redressed my wife in front of everyone else. This is NOT something that I would normally do, but I feel it is important to let everyone know that continued invitation to my shooting club is dependent on their proper respect for firearm safety. My wife claims that the gun just discharged on its own as she was closing the action (Remington Spartan SPR 453). I don't buy it. Modern firearms do not discharge randomly on their own. The hammer HAD to be released by pressing the trigger.

Now, I have made two decisions as a result of today. The person who caused incident #1 will not be invited back to shoot with me unless he completes a proper firearms safety course. Also, I will not be taking my wife to the range again until she can explain to me exactly how her shotgun discharged. We completed a safety course together last summer and she should know better. In my opinion, I do not want to shoot with people who are not aware of and cannot properly operate their firearm.

Our guests left the house about two hours ago. I have not spoken to my wife. She knows I am absolutely livid and tolerate no negligence around firearms. I know she is very upset. Normally, I would do the "man" thing and apologize and make her feel better despite her being in the wrong. I can't do it this time. I can't forgive potentially deadly mistakes.

[Dan J]

Chris,
I understand the safety thing very well. However I must inform you that you are being a dick.
The importance of your wife in your life compared to hobbies and amusements cannot be overstated. Ask for her forgiveness, now
Best Regards,
Dan Jacobs

[stomachmonkey]

Don't get it.

You take inexperienced people and get pissed when they don't digest everything first time?

Maybe YOU should have spent more time with them and watched them closer.

As far as your wife, dressing her down in front of everyone just for effect or to make an impression. I would think the impression you left with the wife and everyone else is that you're an a55hole.

[9dreizig]

Chris, you're totally right to be upset.. But Dan is correct, you're being a bit of a dick, you've put the fear of god into her, now go tell her you were upset but not totally out of line and maybe you'll get a little tonight.. Dude do you know how lucky you are to have a wife that likes to shoot??

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I'd just be glad she didn't hit one of the shells and blown her own foot off.

What's she doing keeping shells on the ground in front of her anyway. Ammo is always supposed to be behind you - at least that's the way I was always taught.

[trekkor]

Better bow down.

And quick...


KT

[berettafan]

you don't always get second chances to do safety right when guns are involved. if somebody shot the ground in front of them while loading their gun during trap i'd walk off the field right then and there and go home.

not much excuse for having a loaded gun outside the shooting box either with the new guy.

but i do agree you are being a dick with regard to the 'dressing down' of your wife in a public manner.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Dude do you know how lucky you are to have a wife that likes to shoot??

her 'accident' is so egregious i'd almost be willing to bet she doesn't really like to shoot. i mean effing finger on the triger when loading a gun? the respect for the gun clearly isn't there and she needs to be removed from the situation until she shows interest on her own.

this illustrates why i won't go out of my way to invite someone along for a duck/dove hunt. just entirely too much opportunity for accidental death to have someone who doesn't have a deep seated desire to be there involved.

[legion]

Going to talk to her now is not an option. It's been six hours since we left the range and I am still physically shaking with anger. That is no state to have discussion in.

I'll sleep on the couch tonight if I have to, but I am not currently capable of having a rational discussion. It is better to wait until I am in a better state of mind.

Like I said before, I could not see my wife's feet or shell box from where I was standing so I could not correct her having her shells in front of her. She never put them there before so I didn't even think about it.

As for the newbie--every single person I have ever taken to the range has taken firearm safety seriously. I let people know when I invite them to the range that I take firearm safety VERY seriously. This is the first person who I have taken who apparently did not "get" exactly how serious firearm safety is.

[MRM]

You haven't had much leadership training, have you? You treated your wife the way a DI would treat a new recruit in basic training. The proper way to address any issue with her was to discuss it with her in private. There is no excuse for poor firearm safety and there is no excuse for dressing your wife down in public, especially when your self-avowed reason for doing so is to impress the people you're humiliating your wife in front of. You have just announced to your wife in public that you care more what complete strangers think about you means more than your wife's feelings. You couldn't gently walk over, take the gun and suggest she wait the game out and then talk to her on the car ride home? Dealing with people like your DI dealt with you in basic makes for poor interpersonal relationships and isn't good personnel management in the real world.

[nostatic]

it's good to see that your "real world" persona follows lock-step with your online one

[legion]

I've been married for 4 years and been with my wife for 10 years. I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever yelled at her in public before. I absolutely despise people who do that. There is no excuse.

I am angry. Very, very, very, very angry. I am outside of my ability to cope with the anger. That is not an excuse, but just a declaration that I am in unfamiliar territory and am not thinking clearly.

I was in the wrong for yelling at my wife. That is not disputable. My behavior was (is) despicable.

Still, I need to wait until I have some perspective and am capable of rational discussion.

[nostatic]

in all seriousness, here's something you might want to consider. And feel free to dismiss the arm-chair analysis but having been down this road before I'll throw it out there.

Is it possible that some/much of your anger is actually your ego being threatened? You brought these people to the range and their mistakes made *you* look bad to the range owners and your peers. So maybe this is less about safety and more about your state of mind.

I'm not downplaying the safety angle at all. I beat it into the ground with my g/f and my son when I take them to the range. Especially with my son. But I also know that my ego creeps into the whole equation and I need to worry more about what is really important. fwiw, ymmv, yada yada

[Super_Dave_D]

Sounds like the guy that trained them did a really poor job. I mean an hour to go over the use or 3 guns, safety and range etiquette!!!!! You should kick his a$$!!!!!!

[MRM]

Your anger is out of proportion to the situation. You need to figure out why and address that issue before addressing the range safety with your wife.

[stomachmonkey]

Me thinks Todd may be onto something there.

Regardless, you have serious anger management issues that you need to deal with.

Your rage is out of proportion.

[stomachmonkey]

Me thinks Todd may be onto something there.

Regardless, you have serious anger management issues that you need to deal with.

Your rage is out of proportion.

[trekkor]

I still say bow down...


KT

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Super_Dave_D

Sounds like the guy that trained them did a really poor job. I mean an hour to go over the use or 3 guns, safety and range etiquette!!!!! You should kick his a$$!!!!!!

Exactly. And legion, you need professional help, buddy. I mean that in the nicest way possible. You say that you are "very,very,very,very" angry after 5 hours? Did I get the right # of "verys" there?

I take firearms safety seriously as well, and do not feel comfortable around people who do not, but you need to get a grip. Your post sounds like the admissions of a person with serious personality issues. I'm feeling for your wife. Did you drag her into your hobby, or does she have some interest in skeet-shooting on her own? Something about that activity brings out the worst in male spouses when wives are involved, but usually when the wife out-shoots him. There is a great scene in "This Boy's Life" between DiNiro and Ellen Barkin when he takes her skeet shooting and he freaks out on her. You're creeping us out a little here, dude.

Apologize to the wife profusely, promise to get some help and do not ever take people gun shooting again. This is retarded.

[jyl]

You are right, firearms are serious business, and accidental discharges are a very bad thing. They are frightening and, when you think about the potential consequences, horrifying.

But you should try your best to respond to the situation in the most productive way, which may not necessarily be to respond with horror, anger, or other negative emotion.

The situation is that (a) shooting is optional for your wife, (b) you would like her to continue shooting with you (I assume), and (c) she has to learn to do so safely. If she were a recruit in basic training and you were a drill instructor, then only (c) would matter so you could kick her ass, humiliate her in public, make her drop and give you 100, etc. But obviously its not that situation.
Because of (a) and (b), you've got to be supportive and understanding, as well as firm and absolute.

Here's my suggestion. Tell her you know you over-reacted, but it was out of fear and love because she could have killed herself, and she is the center of your life, so you just lost it a bit. You want to work with her on shooting, but you need some time to get over it and calm down. Okay, that should keep you from sleeping in the garage. Later - like in a day or so - come back to the subject. Explain that guns only fire if the trigger is pulled, then work on gun safety and, when the time is right, ease back into shooting with her.

You might simply not be the kind of husband who is able to instruct his wife. If so, its not a sin. I know I have trouble teaching my wife certain things. I get too impatient. In that case, then don't teach her firearms safety yourself, send her to a class and you take it too, as moral support and as a refresher, because all of us have something to learn.

In future, try to avoid doing too much at once, at the range. If I take a newbie shooting for the first time, I don't plan on doing much (or any) shooting myself that day. I figure I will spend the time standing behind him, watching and reminding. I don't think I have ever taken two newbies shooting at once. I know you wife wasn't/isn't a newbie, but anyway the point is don't get overloaded.

Good luck. I read the comments above, that maybe your ego drove the over-reaction. Maybe, but my guess is that the way I wrote it (above) actually is/was the real reason for your over-reaction. When our loved ones are in danger, it frightens us and we often do react with anger. At least, some of us do. Its not really anger at them, its just sort of a violent release of emotion and fear. I've actually experienced it myself, and I've not been proud of my behaviour those times.