Honda's hydrogen powered car

[Jim Richards]

So, what's the story on hydrogen power? Is the production of compressed hydrogen cost effective? How realistic would it be to deploy hydrogen gas service stations nationwide? Is this more daunting than the original deployment of gasoline service stations in the earlier part of the 20th century? Will algore breathe hydrogen gas and combust in an environmental rage?


Honda hits the hydrogen highway
The FCX Clarity fuel cell car is now available, but you're going to have to hit the Golden State to get one.


Honda FCX Clarity

Honda began production of its new FCX Clarity fuel cell car Monday. The Japanese automaker will produce about 200 of them over the next three years. Honda would not say how many will make it to the U.S., but those that do will be leased only in Southern California.

The FCX Clarity converts compressed hydrogen gas into water in a process that releases a stream of electricity that powers the car. Fuel cars are "zero emission" vehicles, releasing only water vapor exhaust. It gets about 79 miles per "gallon equivalent" in city driving and 68 on the highway, according to Honda. (Electric motors produce maximum turning power at low speeds, and the cars have single-speed transmissions, so fuel economy on the highway is lower than in the city.)

In California, a three-year lease will run $600 a month, which includes collision insurance and maintenance.

Honda has previously estimated it will cost about $1 million to build each car.

General Motors already has a test fleet of about 100 fuel cell-powered Chevrolet Equinox SUVs in the hands of "ordinary consumers" in California, New York and Washington D.C.

We were able to test drive an early version of the Honda FCX last year in Washington D.C. The car Honda is now building is nearly identical.
By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney.com staff writer

[Gogar]

Well, the idea that the Fuel Cell car is -safer- than Dino cars is ludicrous. I've heard that the Dihydrogen Monoxide these cars emits is very dangerous. If you get enough of it into your lungs, it will KILL YOU. That's a proven fact right there.


Does anyone know the actual cost of producting the vehicle today? Surely it's not still 1 million, is it?

[Jim Richards]

Dihydrogen monoxide is an insidious killer.

[teenerted1]

looks like you have a station in DC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_station

[Jim Richards]

Now, if only I was a movie star, I could get one of these cars.

[red-beard]

Hydrogen is made from water, using electricty. It is mearly an energy storage system.

Some Problems:

It doesn't have a lot of energy, so you have to compress it a lot.
High Pressure hydrogen does not work like regular gasses, it heats up as it expands.
Above a certain pressure, leaks auto ignite
It has the widest flammability range of any fuel. Even tiny amounts (5%) mixtures in air will ignite. And even small amounts of contamination by Air in the hydrogen (also 5%) will ignite.
When it does catch fire, the flame is invisible, in the ultraviolet range. You need special sensors to detect hydrogen fires.

In the business, we have different ratings of equipment used in hazardous environments (Flammable, explosive, etc). Gasoline is rated "C" like propane. Natural Gas is "D", Hydrogen is "B" and Acetylene is "A". The rating is based on the amount of energy in a spark required to ignite a mixture. So, A is easiest, and D is hardest. Hydrogen is the second easiest. In general, if we have more than 5% hydrogen, we have to go for "B" rated equipment.

[p911dad]

Our vehicle fleet has many Honda Civics that are powered by CNG, and they are really wonderful little cars. About 6 gallons of CNG delivered to the car's tank at 3600 pounds per sq. inch will take you 250 miles. All the car passes to the atmosphere is water vapour(so they say) and CO2. We have our own refilling stations, as no one else in NY seems to care about this technology, which I think is a shame. The refilling stations have some powerful electric pumps and really heavy duty storage tanks, along with the computers and delivery pumps, so it is quite expensive to build the stations from scratch. The natural gas comes out of the local piping system owned by New York State Elec and Gas or National Fuel Gas and is available just about anywhere in NY State(not rural areas of course). I wonder what is the big advantage of hydrogen to the CNG cars? Here is a system that really works well and doesn't seem to be catching on.

[john70t]

"Leased only"? Smells like EV1.

[Normy]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Dihydrogen monoxide is an insidious killer.

I thought it was "dihydrogen oxide"-?

I use it to kill the rats and iguana's that I trap in my back yard. Works just as well as the pellet gun and the .22 WMR.

N!

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Now, if only I was a movie star, I could get one of these cars.

Jay Leno has one.. but i think it's one of the GM.

[9dreizig]

Can't Di hydrogen monoxide be neutralized with alcohol ? I'm pretty sure if you freeze some of it into cubes, mix it with the rest and add the alcohol in the form of scotch it's safe.. In fact in ancient cultures it's used to make women look prettier

[Jim Richards]

Yes, its hallucinogenic properties are well known.

[Jim Richards]

I wonder about the lack of growth in CNG-powered vehicles, too.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by gmeteer

I wonder what is the big advantage of hydrogen to the CNG cars? Here is a system that really works well and doesn't seem to be catching on.

It is a fuel cell electric car.

From a commercial stand point, the CNG cars make much more sense. In Romania, they supply Butane/Propane mix cars.

[Jim Richards]

Does anyone here on PPOT know if the economics are more favorable than gas, factoring the need for the distribution infrastructure?

[The Gaijin]

The supply of CNG and LPG is not enough to meet the motoring needs of America.. Around the world fleets of gas fueled buses, taxis and delivery vehicles are popular in places where pollution is a problem.

You have got to hand it to Honda - they are getting lots of free PR and lots of good press.

US automakers are a joke.

[sammyg2]

They can make anything we want as long as we are stupid enough to buy it.
An inefficient, unreliable $100,000 car isn't my idea of a solution.
They lease these things for the same reason they leased the electric cars, because of warranty problems and liability. They don't want these cars out there for very long because they know if they are, they'll get a class action suit filed against them. they also know they can't afford to offer a comprehensive warranty because it will eat their financial lunch even more than the cars already are.

It takes more energy to split hydrogen and oxygen than you get back when you re-combine them. It's an energy-consuming reaction.
That is what it is, no matter how much we hope for change.

[Mule]

Obama can change that!

[Jim Richards]

It's only taxes.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Honda is leasing the cars because they are essentially hand-built, and supposedly cost approximately $1M each to build due to the exotic materials and technology. The really cool tech is the home fueling stations that are not yet available.

"The Home Energy Station IV can reduce both cost and carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions for the consumer. Compared to the average U.S. consumer's home with grid-supplied electricity and a gasoline-powered car, a home using Home Energy Station IV to help produce heat and electricity and also to refuel an FCX Clarity can reduce CO2 emissions by an estimated 30 percent and energy costs by an estimated 50 percent."

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/nov2007/bw20071127_309229.htm?chan=technology_technology+i ndex+page_science