Imus does it again!

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

If Sharpton didn't bring attention to this behavior would it be in the news?

No, Sharpton is a racist with different stripes.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

The Jaguars have a very good QB, both on & off the field.

He went to my alma mater (I didn't even know who he was before last year), but I saw some interviews. David Girard is a helluva QB and a class act all the way. Wish more pro athletes had his character and can't believe the Panthers let him get away

[Mule]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Troy Aikman was once accused of being racist because he mostly yelled at black players.

Emmet Smith came to his defense, "Of course he mostly yells at the black players, there are only 3 white guys on the team."

The NFL is 70% black. Pretty good chance it's gonna be a black guy.

Which begs the larger question, why are there only 10 black QB's out of the 90 or so on last years roster?

Ask Rush Limbaugh. My buddy is a jet pilot. Most of them are white too. Get Al Sharpton on the phone. We're getting to the bottom of this. Oh, and while watching the NBA finals, I didn't see 1 Viet Namese either!

Are you an affirmative action guy?

[MRM]

It isn't true that only black NFL player get in trouble. The reason you think that is they only report the color of the player when he is black. While it is true that Pacman is a brutal thug who should live the rest of his life in jail and he is black, one has nothing to do with the other. Making a connection between Pacman, his race and crimes serves no purpose other than to give the Byrons of this world one more enecdote with which to buttres their arguments.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Correct. 10% of the time is a close number.

All races commit crimes at roughly the same percentage relative to their representation of the total population, ~15-17%. That is well documented and not disputed by anyone.

Huh? I don't want to ruin your bowl of corn flakes but blacks are imprisoned at roughly 9 times the rate of whites and commit over 40% of the crime.

http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/050213_mapping.htm

http://www.newsnet14.com/2003/12/21/crime-statistics-and-race/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_24_18/ai_82770922

[KFC911]

Statistics can prove just about anything you want them to Mule. Do YOU think it's because of their "black skin" or potentially other factors (social/economic status, education, etc.)? Just curious. I don't associate with the "riff raff" regardless of race, and for the most part all of the black people that I've been around in my lifetime ("true" friends and casual acquaintances) have been no different than myself. If you WANT to see race...you will

[Mule]

Originally Posted by KC911

Statistics can prove just about anything you want them to Mule. Do YOU think it's because of their "black skin" or potentially other factors (social/economic status, education, etc.)? Just curious. I don't associate with the "riff raff" regardless of race, and for the most part all of the black people that I've been around in my lifetime ("true" friends and casual acquaintances) have been no different than myself. If you WANT to see race...you will

Huh? Nice statement. I didn't bring up the subject. I was correcting a previous statement quoted in my post. The numbers stand.

[Jim Richards]

Who cares? Imus is lame.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Mule

Huh? I don't want to ruin your bowl of corn flakes but blacks are imprisoned at roughly 9 times the rate of whites and commit over 40% of the crime.

http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/050213_mapping.htm

http://www.newsnet14.com/2003/12/21/crime-statistics-and-race/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_24_18/ai_82770922

Nice,

Stats from White Supremisct sites, violent crimes specifically, and I don't know what the last one is trying to say.

You'll find they types of crimes vary among races.

Blacks will have a higher percentage of violence based crimes while whites will have a much higher rate of property and white collar crimes. I'm sure Ken Lays victims are OK with it since he did not use a gun.

Coupled with the fact that minorities get profiled, ie; cars searched at 3x's the rate of whites, your going to have a higher incident of arrests for that group.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

I think this is arguable, and certainly disputable. In fact, the statistics show a very different picture. I should strongly note that race should not be considered the "cause" as social conditions, poverty and other non-racial factors are major determinants to crime.

edit: One could also argue minorities are unfairly singled out by LEOs, or any number of other factors which lead to the imbalance in the race/crime ratio. Hope I didn't just touch the "third rail"!

These are just stats for homicide from the US DoJ:



http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

FWIW.

Kurt,

You surprise me here.

Your research is usually much more thorough than this.

Go back and look at total crime tables and see the difference in the types of crimes committed.

That will let you start to draw some more accurate conclusions of the socio economic factors that affect certain class structures propensity for specific criminal activity.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Kurt,

You surprise me here.

Your research is usually much more thorough than this.

Go back and look at total crime tables and see the difference in the types of crimes committed.

That will let you start to draw some more accurate conclusions of the socio economic factors that affect certain class structures propensity for specific criminal activity.

???

Can you post the crime table you are referring too?

I don't think I am drawing any conclusions, just showing the skewed ratio for homicides. I admit I didn't look at an aggregate of "all crimes", but would appreciate looking at such a table!

I have no problem admitting my wrongness, if that is the case.

Best,

[kstar]

If one looks at "imprisonment" as a measure of "all crimes committed" (I know it's an imperfect measure, as not everyone that commits a crime goes to jail) a similar disproportion is seen as shown in the homicide statistics, FWIW.

edit: The below data is also dated (2001), but I think it may be safe to assume the general situation expressed by the numbers has not changed significantly?

Again, I am not attempting to draw conclusions or make judgments. This data is also from the DoJ.

Prevalence of imprisonment in the United States

As of December 31, 2001, there were an estimated 5.6 million adults who had ever served time in State or Federal prison, including 4.3 million former prisoners and 1.3 million adults in prison.

Nearly a third of former prisoners were still under correctional supervision, including 731,000 on parole, 437,000 on probation, and 166,000 in local jails.

In 2001, an estimated 2.7% of adults in the U.S. had served time in prison, up from 1.8% in 1991 and 1.3% in 1974.

The prevalence of imprisonment in 2001 was higher for
-- black males (16.6%) and Hispanic males (7.7%) than for white males (2.6%)
-- black females (1.7%) and Hispanic females (0.7%) than white females (0.3%)

Nearly two-thirds of the 3.8 million increase in the number of adults ever incarcerated between 1974 and 2001 occurred as a result of an increase in first incarceration rates; one-third occurred as a result of an increase in the number of residents age 18 and older.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm#prevalence

[stomachmonkey]

Kurt,

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_43.html

Violent crimes are scary for blacks.

Couple of interesting things. Check out the Alcohol related offenses and gambling.

There are definitely environmental/socio economic factors in play here.

End of the day there are people of all races that suck and there are people of all races that do not suck.

I view Imus comment as supporting a lot of the stereotypes that people have.

You ever hear that one, "All Poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are Poodles"

IMHO Imus and those that use those kinds of examples are trying to say "Some criminals are Black therefore Blacks are criminals".

[sammyg2]

1 of every 9 black males in his twenties in the United States is either incarcerated or has been incarcerated.

This is from the US department of Justice: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm
Summary findings

On June 30, 2007 —

At midyear 2007 there were 4,618 black male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 black males in the United States, compared to 1,747 Hispanic male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 Hispanic males and 773 white male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 white males.

That means that a black male is SIX times as likely to be in prison or jail than a white male. The outrage from the black community should be focused on that fact and should be trying to do something about that, not crying and trying to extort money every time someone points out the obvious. What Imus said is not politically correct and was a stupid thing to say, but it was based on fact.

BTW, Sharpton and Jessie Jackson can bite me. Same goes for any racist who supports them and uses this type of thing for their own benefit. They are worse than any bigot redneck.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Kurt,

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_43.html

Violent crimes are scary for blacks.

Couple of interesting things. Check out the Alcohol related offenses and gambling.

There are definitely environmental/socio economic factors in play here.

End of the day there are people of all races that suck and there are people of all races that do not suck.

I view Imus comment as supporting a lot of the stereotypes that people have.

You ever hear that one, "All Poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are Poodles"

IMHO Imus and those that use those kinds of examples are trying to say "Some criminals are Black therefore Blacks are criminals".

I generally agree with all that you have said above!

As I stated very strongly in my first post, I don't think color of skin is the determinant! I did not and would not make that judgment.

But the data do show that the ratio of crimes committed by race, at least as it relates to actual imprisonment, are not proportionate to the population, as you originally claimed. That's all I was trying to express.

Now where did I go wrong in my research?

Best,

[kstar]

Your link from the FBI showing "arrests" seems to generally support my initial argument against proportional distribution:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_43.html

FWIW.

Best,

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

1 of every 9 black males in his twenties in the United States is either incarcerated or has been incarcerated.

This is from the US department of Justice:
Summary findings

On June 30, 2007 —

At midyear 2007 there were 4,618 black male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 black males in the United States, compared to 1,747 Hispanic male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 Hispanic males and 773 white male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 white males.

So while what Imus said is not politically correct and was a stupid thing to say, it was based on fact.

BTW, Sharpton and Jessie Jackson can bite me. Same goes for any racist who supports them and uses this type of thing for their own benefit. They are worse than any bigot redneck.

This is exactly why what he said is so dangerous.

It perpetuates stereotypes.

There are and have been ongoing debates re the skewed percentages of prison population.

Fact: Blacks are imprisoned at a higher rate that whites for the same offenses.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/scscf04/tables/scs04205tab.htm

There may be justification for it, a higher repeat offender rate etc.. and there may be other reasons.

A high repeat offender rate supports crime rate is a function of a percentage of race. In other words if you have higher crime rate in the black population as a result of higher repeat offender rate then that supports that there are less black criminals than the numbers alone would indicate.

To form an opinion on a soundbite is ridiculous.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by MRM

While it is true that Pacman is a brutal thug who should live the rest of his life in jail and he is black, one has nothing to do with the other.

I want to run with this one a bit...

I think that what we're seeing is that people who are brutal thugs inherently, are finding that they can use something like high school/college/NFL football as a way to get rich and famous by being the brutal brainless thug that they would be anyways. The other option is joining a gang. It's not a black/white thing, it's a society supporting the drafting of these maniacs for their Sunday afternoon entertainment.


There have been numerous movies/shows about future game shows being based around extremely violent sports (Deathrace 2000, Rollerball, Running Man)...the concept that society will become some messed up that watching people nearly murder each other is now good family entertainment...


Hmmm...seems like we reached that point. What's popular now? Football players that can destroy a club and kill people, rappers that get in shootouts, and MMA fighting where blood flows freely, and the brutality is glorified. Even our baseball players are monsters now.

Yup...our society has actually reached that point that we joked about/feared in early visions of a rotten future...

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

Your link from the FBI showing "arrests" seems to generally support my initial argument against proportional distribution:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_43.html

FWIW.

Best,

Actually it does support proportional distribution.

Crime is based more on opportunity to commit.

You are of the position, based on the numbers, that blacks are more violent than whites.

So following that logic I say that whites are less trustworthy than blacks because their rate of fraud arrests is 3x's higher. Personally I think that whites should not be allowed to drive, they are drunks, their rate of DWI's is 10x's higher.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Actually it does support proportional distribution.

I just don't see that in the numbers.

Crime is based more on opportunity to commit.

You are of the position, based on the numbers, that blacks are more violent than whites.

So following that logic I say that whites are less trustworthy than blacks because their rate of fraud arrests is 3x's higher. Personally I think that whites should not be allowed to drive, they are drunks, their rate of DWI's is 10x's higher.

As I have said at least a few times now, I am not making any judgments or drawing any conclusions. I think I have stressed this and have been extremely clear in this regard.