W210 MB E-class: anyone own one?

[Jim Richards]

We'll be having this discussion again in around 6 months.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

We'll be having this discussion again in around 6 months.

See ya then!

You all move to Wichita, we could have it over a beer in my garage.

[Jim Richards]

[Sarc]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Sarc, our car wants seem to run oddly parallel. Maybe we should develop some sort of rotation/trade agreement? I'll buy a 240Z, you can buy a W210, maybe I'll pick up an E34 540/6.......it's like joint custody! Congrats on the new kid.

Deal! Down the road do you mind if we pick up an E28 M5 as well? Thanks for the congrats...she's a beauty!

[onewhippedpuppy]

You buy the E28, I'll buy the E34 M5. Deal?

[Scott98]

I've owned two 210 MBs. The first was a '97 (non-turbo diesel) and the second was a '98 turbo diesel. I loved them both. I got 34 mpg in the '98 and had plenty of power. I would strongly recommend a diesel over a gasser. You'll get much better fuel economy. These engines also last practically forever. Glow plugs and air in the fuel lines are the two most common problems but aren't bad or expensive in most cases in the grand scheme of things. Spring perch failures are way overated in my opinion. Just look at it and see if there is rust there; if not, you're good to go. http://www.mercedesshop.com is a fantastic resource.

Scott

[onewhippedpuppy]

What do you guys think about this one? '97 E420 with 120k, $5990. Looks super clean. I haven't bothered calling to see about service records, condition, etc.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=239633279&dealer_id=1387252&car_year=1997&model=E420&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=200&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=MB&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=1&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=67226&advanced=&end_year=2009&doors=&transmission=&max_price=6000&cardist=164

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by Scott98

I've owned two 210 MBs. The first was a '97 (non-turbo diesel) and the second was a '98 turbo diesel. I loved them both. I got 34 mpg in the '98 and had plenty of power. I would strongly recommend a diesel over a gasser. You'll get much better fuel economy. These engines also last practically forever.

Scott: how do you find the NA e300d compard to the tubocharged one? I drove a '96 NA and found it a bit sluggish, but it also idled poorly because of air leaks in the fuel lines, so that wasn't a good "baseline".

Originally Posted by Scott98

Glow plugs and air in the fuel lines are the two most common problems but aren't bad or expensive in most cases in the grand scheme of things.

Glow plugs aren't expensive to replace, but you can be in a whole world of trouble if they break off in the head, as they are wont to do. I was able to successfully drill & tap mine and weld up a puller, but I know 2 people who ended up having to pull the head to get it machined, to the tune of 3-5k.

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

What do you guys think about this one? '97 E420 with 120k, $5990. Looks super clean. I haven't bothered calling to see about service records, condition, etc.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=239633279&dealer_id=1387252&car_year=1997&model=E420&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=200&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=MB&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=1&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=67226&advanced=&end_year=2009&doors=&transmission=&max_price=6000&cardist=164

Nice! That burgundy is my favorite color on them... there was a diesel one in that color that I considered, but it had no records.

Another thing to check is the transmission. I read that some of the earlier ones were more prone to failure than the later, fully electronic ones. Also, the factory originally stated that the transmission fluid was a "lifetime" item, but now everyone seems to recommend changing @ 80 - 100k

[onewhippedpuppy]

Yeah, that color combination is sex. Probably why I like the car so much, also it looks really clean.

I'd read that about the transmission, "lifetime" fluid is a joke. Every make I've encountered with "lifetime" fluid (Saab, BMW) ends up recommending changes after they get some failures. Nothing lasts forever, especially lubricants. Though on the upside, MB automatics seem to be much better than those from BMW, Acura and Saab. I started out looking at the late '90s Acura TL, until I found they they have more issues than the W210. Many reports on Edmunds of 3 transmissions within 100k. You can replace a lot of window regulators for the price of an Acura transmission.

[notfarnow]

Oh, here's another data point for you:

I replaced my starter last night. A remanufactured one cost me $260 and it took under an hour. Try that with a BMW or Audi. The car is a joy to work on.

Another thing to check: play with the AC, raising & lowering the temps in the two zones. The solenoid "duovalves" that control coolant flow through the system are prone to sticking open, so you get hot air. Easy to replace though, and some people rebuild them.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Not bad, but a Saab rebuilt starter is $150, and an E34 540 starter is $180. Though you can't do ANYTHING on a BMW within one hour, at least not the E34 and E36 that I have owned.

For me it's not so much the parts cost, but how much time I spend fixing stuff. I DIY, and labor usually costs more than parts anyway. I've been amazed how few issues these cars seem to have. They are German, right? I found accounts on MB forums of people only doing minor stuff like window regulators, maintenance, and light bulbs, on 200k+ cars.

[notfarnow]

Yeah, keep in mind I'm talking Canuck Bucks. Even with our dollar hovering at par, we tend to pay more for parts. Even worse, we pay more for our cars. A w210 e300d is ~50% more expensive up here than down in the states, and they are blocked for importation.

I know what you mean about time/labor though. My last VW was a pain to work on, plus the parts were disproportionately expensive. Instead of enjoying working on cars as a hobby, I was losing weekends doing regular, steady work. It gets to be a real pain when you are replacing the same parts only 2-3 years later.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Doh! I forgot about the Canada thing. Regardless, I did a quick search for a '97 E420 starter, it's $170 for a rebuilt, exactly the same as the E34 BMW.

I'm in the exact same boat as you on the repairs. I enjoy working on cars, but not EVERY weekend. With my current Saab (and past BMWs) it's mostly been little stuff, but it's always something. Probably why many of these cars tend to have needs, less anal owners can easily ignore the little things.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I'm in the exact same boat as you on the repairs. I enjoy working on cars, but not EVERY weekend. With my current Saab (and past BMWs) it's mostly been little stuff, but it's always something. Probably why many of these cars tend to have needs, less anal owners can easily ignore the little things.

Yep, my car's PO didn't bother fixing the passenger mirror, sunroof, passenger seat switch etc... probably because he didn't want to pay $80/hr for labour. I was able to find used parts on ebay for <$100 and do them all in 3-4 hours. Anything you'd ever want to do has been done & documented 20 times on mercedesshop.com. There are some serious DIYers over there. Then again, maybe we should start filling in the gaps on the PelicanParts Mercedes forum

[tcar]

Matt,
What's wrong w/ the Aero? Those are great cars.

You'll miss it...

I don't understand a MB that new w/ all the RUST issues. P took care of that back in the '70's.

[onewhippedpuppy]

There's really nothing wrong with the Aero except age and my anal-retentiveness. I like a car to be nearly perfect. If it's not, it bugs me. The Aero has things I'd like to restore/repair, but it just doesn't make sense on a 227k car. Plus, it's been very needy recently, and I just can't make myself like torque steer. Once I get the A/C fixed it will make someone a nice car, what else can you buy for $3k that has 220 HP and gets 30 MPG on the highway?

What I've read about the W210 rust is that MB was going to a new water based paint system, and was having trouble with the process. The early cars before they got it sorted were seceptible to rust because the surface treatment was lacking. Pretty much a quality control issue I guess.

[m325ix]

I own 2001 E320 4-Matic.
My advise is to buy the newest car you can afford, anything after 2000 should be pretty much bullet proof if it was properly taken car of with all maintainence receipts available

[Scott98]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

Scott: how do you find the NA e300d compard to the tubocharged one? I drove a '96 NA and found it a bit sluggish, but it also idled poorly because of air leaks in the fuel lines, so that wasn't a good "baseline".


Glow plugs aren't expensive to replace, but you can be in a whole world of trouble if they break off in the head, as they are wont to do. I was able to successfully drill & tap mine and weld up a puller, but I know 2 people who ended up having to pull the head to get it machined, to the tune of 3-5k.

There is a world of difference between the turbo and non-turbo models. Once you drive a turbo there is no way you will want a non-turbo. Keep in mind the '96 still had a vacuum controlled transmission. The '97 was electronically controlled. The '97 would take off as soon as you mashed the accelerator pedal. It wasn't sluggish at all but still had nowhere near the power of the '98. I've never driven a '96 but I have driven multiple diesels with vacuum controlled transmission and they are all sluggish at low rpms. I think the switch to the electronically controlled transmissions in '97 helped alleviate that problem. Hope that helps.

Scott

[onewhippedpuppy]

I test drove a '98 E320 and E430. The E430 was totally trashed, and drove like absolute crap. The motor, however, was very nice. The E320 drove very well, more comfortable than my Saab but it seemed more responsive with less body roll. Super comfy seats, lots of fun gizmos. I was really impressed with the V6, it had much better power than expected. Enough so that I'll consider purchasing one.

Both of these cars were neglected and over-priced. Still, I got enough of an impression to know that I like the car.

[Scott98]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I test drove a '98 E320 and E430. The E430 was totally trashed, and drove like absolute crap. The motor, however, was very nice. The E320 drove very well, more comfortable than my Saab but it seemed more responsive with less body roll. Super comfy seats, lots of fun gizmos. I was really impressed with the V6, it had much better power than expected. Enough so that I'll consider purchasing one.

Both of these cars were neglected and over-priced. Still, I got enough of an impression to know that I like the car.

Hvae yout driven a turbo-diesel yet? You ought to just for comparison's sake. You might like it or you might not; at least you'll know. You will get much better fuel economy over the E320 and will still have plenty of power.

Scott