Car crash - and so begins a new insurance saga...

[mikester]

Well; Monday night my 7 months pregnant wife and 3 year old get into an 4 car end to end pile up in Westchester (35 mph road). Wife shares some blame here but she insists that she was paying attention and simply did not have time to react - it happened so fast. The damage to the car appears severe to me, I believe her story but something extraordinary had to have happened. The first car stopped for a pedestrian - apparently standing on the brakes to do so. The second car hit the first car and my wife hit that car and was then hit in the rear. Car #1 and #4 left the scene. My wife had to have the fire dept get her out of the car as she could not open her door. The police officer told her there was no 4th car but the damage to the rear says otherwise as well as my 3 year old's account of what happened. There is info on the 1st car that drove off but the 4th is unknown - wife didn't even see it.

By and large they both are fine save for a few bumps and bruises. Wife ended up in the hospital under observation for ~30 hours at that he!! hole of Harbor-UCLA. Save grace is that King/Drew is closed so we didn't end up there...

We're home though, I have the car at the auto shop and we are waiting to hear what the estimate is - I'm worried they will total it and that if they do I won't get a good value for it. It's a 2005 Prius with 40k on the odometer, KBB value appears to be around $20k which isn't quite enough to get a new one but it's pretty close. The shop was opening her up to check for engine damage (it's pretty close up in there). I know the radiator is toast though it did not appear to have leaked (amazing!). I'm concerned about the straightness of the car as I do not want a crooked car!

Anyone been through this sort of thing lately? Insurance is State Farm and I have very little bad to say about them - they have treated us very well and I have had them for nearly 20 years now, my wife has had them at least as long. I'm worried that they will also NOT total the car, I'm concerned that the air bags did not deploy - not sure they should have but from the impact I think they would have.

Here's the pic!

[TerryH]

Sorry to hear that. Glad the family is okay. Most of us follow too close to stop for unexpected hazards. Reaction time > distance = wreck.

[mikester]

The more I look at it the less bad it looks to me - I dunno...we'll see.

[TheMentat]

looks like she hit a pick-up truck or something! Regardless, most of the energy looks like it was dissipated by crumpling the hood & faicia, rather than the bumper/crash structure... hence the reason the airbags didn't deploy. I'd be real surprised if there was structural damage!

[DanielDudley]

Said a prayer for your family.

The car is on its own. LOL W/that.

[mikester]

Originally Posted by TheMentat

looks like she hit a pick-up truck or something! Regardless, most of the energy looks like it was dissipated by crumpling the hood & faicia, rather than the bumper/crash structure... hence the reason the airbags didn't deploy. I'd be real surprised if there was structural damage!

Appreciate the prays guys.

It does look like the structure is intact - she hit a lexus sedan. We're not sure what hit her from behind though as she didn't get a look at it before it took off.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Glad they're ok. A pregnant wife in an accident with your little kid, not a good scenerio. I'd say it looks fixable. Most of the impact was absorbed by your hood, it looks like the bulk of the bumper damage is to the plastic cover. The airbags are intact, that's probably $2-4k right there that doesn't have to be replaced. Right now it looks like you need a new hood, grille, bumper cover, and fender (fenders?).

[Big Ed]

That'll buff right out. Doesn't look like a total to me.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I'd almost hope it is totalled. A car is simply never the same once it's in a wreck like that, no matter how much work they do to it and how many pieces get replaced. On non-frame/unibody type cars like that I imagine it's even worse. Bummer is if it is you'll probably have to wait in line for another one.

Glad everyone is okay at least.

[legion]

I moonlight as an Body Shop estimator...

Okay, so maybe that's not true, but most of my friends do ask me to look at their cars when they've been in an accident and provide a ballpark figure on what it would cost to fix.

I'd be very surprised if the car is not totalled. That's not to say it can't be fixed, but the repairs would most likely cost more than the replacement value of the car. Then again, hybrids are in high demand so maybe it has depreciated pretty slowly.

Still, there is a lot of paint work that needs to be done, and that is very expensive and labor-intensive. Also, there are probably a few thing under the hood that need to be replaced. If the engine shifted position as a result of the impact, the car is done as that probably deformed where the engine mounts meet the frame.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I'd have to agree. The entire front half of the car is affected in that photo - all the way back to the door hinges (which might also be tweaked for all we know).

As much as a PITA as it is, maybe having the thing totalled out and getting rid of a car payment isn't such a bad thing going into a recession - it's maybe a little inconvenient but honestly if it were me, I'd see being rid of the car payment as a good thing right now and one less recurring debt expense I have to carry every month in an increasingly uncertain future. . .

It bites bigtime to lose the carpool lane pass though.

[jyl]

Your family is safe, that is the important thing.

Seems your wife was tailgating and/or inattentive. She probably knows it so, I'd think, no point in making a big deal of it.

Investigate actual market value of the Prius. It is likely above high blue book, given the very high demand for this car. Also check your policy language closely. Make sure you are paid every penny owed. Your agent should be backing you up on this, but don't rely on/trust him.

I have had State Farm auto insurance for nearly 20 years, insuring 2-4 cars at once, and we have never made a claim. So when I do someday make a claim, I will be pretty demanding in terms of service and payment.

My guess, BTW, is that the car is totalled.

Might go to Priuschat forums to ask there.

[911boost]

Glad everyone is ok. My wife was in the same type of accident with our Volvo S60 and it did about $15K worth of business and they fixed it.

On a totally unrelated note, and not meant offensive, but YEEEAHHH one less Pri-iiiii to be going 55 mph in the left lane on the interstate.

Bill

[mikester]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I'd have to agree. The entire front half of the car is affected in that photo - all the way back to the door hinges (which might also be tweaked for all we know).

As much as a PITA as it is, maybe having the thing totalled out and getting rid of a car payment isn't such a bad thing going into a recession - it's maybe a little inconvenient but honestly if it were me, I'd see being rid of the car payment as a good thing right now and one less recurring debt expense I have to carry every month in an increasingly uncertain future. . .

It bites bigtime to lose the carpool lane pass though.

It's paid for - we paid cash when we bought it. We don't do debt much in this house, though lately with the wife not working we have relaxed that rule a little bit but ONLY A LITTLE!

So, the car payment thing isn't an issue. I am concerned with replacement value. Right now KBB and Edmunds put me between 18-20k for a good/clean car. It was that prior to Monday evening.

A new one with comparable options (Basic) is about 23-24k MSRP. I'm not even sure they are still selling them at MSRP - if they aren't we'll get something else. If there is a wait we will wait it, I can live without it for a few months. All it will do is save me on gas and the insurance premium.

I have had a few claims with State Farm over the years and they have always been fair. I do not expect this to be any different but I also don't trust them as far as I can throw them. Spoke to the claims adjuster last night and frankly I did not get a good vibe from her.

I've got to start looking at comps to see what the value should really be - I'm not sure if the HOV stickers should factor into that value or not. If I were selling it on the open market they would in fact count.

[legion]

The nice thing about the Agent set-up is that you have someone who has a financial interest in being in your corner. In your situation John, the agent knows that he can kiss 20 more years and probably about a dozen policies worth of premiums good bye if you get hosed.

The Progessives and GEICOs of the world don't have agents (I think those two don't have agents). Therefore, it is just you against the insurance company. There is no one with influence in your corner.

[John_AZ]

Originally Posted by mikester

I am concerned with replacement value. Right now KBB and Edmunds put me between 18-20k for a good/clean car. It was that prior to Monday evening.

A new one with comparable options (Basic) is about 23-24k MSRP. I'm not even sure they are still selling them at MSRP - if they aren't we'll get something else. If there is a wait we will wait it, I can live without it for a few months. All it will do is save me on gas and the insurance premium.

I have had a few claims with State Farm over the years and they have always been fair. I do not expect this to be any different but I also don't trust them as far as I can throw them. Spoke to the claims adjuster last night and frankly I did not get a good vibe from her.

I've got to start looking at comps to see what the value should really be - I'm not sure if the HOV stickers should factor into that value or not. If I were selling it on the open market they would in fact count.

From what TV reports have shown, small cars have increased in value on used car lots-SUV's have tanked or not wanted at all. What I am trying to say is that KBB or any other book comp is out of date. You will need to be agressive with State Farm and their idea of your cars comp.

John_AZ

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Sorry Mike, I guess I assumed you were a normal person an not a millionaire. . . Unfortunately most people aren't in your situation where they can afford to pay for new cars cash. Nice position to be in, but most people aren't that lucky. Anyway, given that's the case I guess you need to consider the value. I don't know what you paid for it but the question then becomes is the difference between the price paid and the payout you'll be given by the ins. co. worth the use you got out of it for the time you had it?

If so, I'd take the money and run - and go buy a cheapo beater until the economy calms down. Cash in one's pocket right now is a good thing and if someone was going to hand me a wad of it right now given how things are going downhill, I'd be a bit hard-pressed not to take it. Of course if you have another car to use, you could just stick the entire wad in your pocket and walk away. That's what I'd do anyway.

If not, or if you're hell-bent on keeping THAT particular car, you can try and bargain with them to get it fixed. You're in a nice position that your carrying costs on the car are very low (insurance, fuel, maintenance only - no payment). Basically the same scenario as having them total it out, pocketing some cash and getting a beater - only you don't get the cash and you do get a newer and arguably nicer car (depending on the quality of repairs).

Best of luck to you whatever you decide.

[john70t]

Mabye a spreadsheet of similar spec'ed Prius' would give a better real-world value to getting a "like replacement".

Glad she's ok. The damage to the rear bumper and witness statements could do a lot to proving % of responsibility for future deductables and rates.
Correct or not, once those numbers are in the big computer the rate that it spits out will be the one you'll pay.
Sadly, those standards are hidden from the public.

[mikester]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Sorry Mike, I guess I assumed you were a normal person an not a millionaire. . . Unfortunately most people aren't in your situation where they can afford to pay for new cars cash. Nice position to be in, but most people aren't that lucky. Anyway, given that's the case I guess you need to consider the value. I don't know what you paid for it but the question then becomes is the difference between the price paid and the payout you'll be given by the ins. co. worth the use you got out of it for the time you had it?

If so, I'd take the money and run - and go buy a cheapo beater until the economy calms down. Cash in one's pocket right now is a good thing and if someone was going to hand me a wad of it right now given how things are going downhill, I'd be a bit hard-pressed not to take it. Of course if you have another car to use, you could just stick the entire wad in your pocket and walk away. That's what I'd do anyway.

If not, or if you're hell-bent on keeping THAT particular car, you can try and bargain with them to get it fixed. You're in a nice position that your carrying costs on the car are very low (insurance, fuel, maintenance only - no payment). Basically the same scenario as having them total it out, pocketing some cash and getting a beater - only you don't get the cash and you do get a newer and arguably nicer car (depending on the quality of repairs).

Best of luck to you whatever you decide.

FAR FAR FAR From millionaires....

At the time we had the money to pay cash but these days money is tighter. I would not however have a problem buying another one for my wife.

We paid ~$23k for that car when new, straight MSRP. It was worth every penny, more than just being good on gas it is just a good car for our family with the way it is configured and that price for that car is quite good. Again, like I said before though if they are going to charge more than MSRP on it - I'm out. We'll find something used or something.

The car's configuration is what does it for me, the hatchback with the ability to fold the seats down. It's got nearly the same cargo capacity as my Xterra had (which I traded it in on). It's just not as tall, in fact I would venture to say that I have been able to fit more in the Prius than the Xterra could. I also fly radio control airplanes and up until recently had been using the Prius as my transport. I recently bought a used Volvo wagon though and that is the new airplane transport.

I checked Autotrader for what 2005 Prius are going for and I see them upwards of $32K!!! That is with option #6 as they called it at the time which included navigation and such. It wasn't just one or two either - it was more than a few. We had the base model though, 40k on the odo and I just changed the oil on Sunday!

[Rot 911]

Keep in mind if it is not totalled you might as well keep it for a long time as the resale value of a repaired car is definitely not as good as a non wrecked car.

Oh, and like John L. said, don't give your wife any grief over the wreck, she probably feels bad enough as it is. Just be glad she wasn't hurt.