But they were our friends, right? I'm so confused.SmileWavy

hmm... we did evacuate vietnam hanging onto the runners of helicopters.

I guess in your youth you saw pictures of people hanging from the helicopters but couldn't tell the difference between Vietnamese and U.S. Military. Those were Vietnamese trying to get out. The war was over, we were already out by then, I think the pictures you saw as a kid were when the people were leaving the Embassy. Millions of North Vietnamese died in that conflict that we weren't allowed to win. They were just about at their end after TET.

about the helicopters, i was speaking figuratively. we bugged out, end of story. we lost, that was my point. you have evidence about them being at their end after TET? i doubt it.

the communists got about half of korea.

But they didn't get the other half.
Where does that say we got our a$$es kicked?

pretty big concession, don't you think? a long drawn out war, lots a casualties, nothing to show for it but half of a country we don't want or need.

our soldiers are being killed in iraq by bombs made with aluminum cans and shape charges fired from pipes and detonated with cell phones.

Your point?

my point is that they may have lost the battle, but they haven't lost. don't you find it interesting that the best equipped military in the world, ours, is getting a black eye from things that one can make in their kitchen?

what part of our leaving vietnam wasn't about us with our tails between our legs?

What did you want us to do, nuke them?

um.... not sure how that applies.

every military debacle we get involved in is compared to our efforts in vietnam.
So, do you think this is Vietnam? if so, why?

what do you mean by 'this'? barack and/or the 'beast'? iraq? the governor of utah? this forum? this thread?

this is sarcasm, right? if not, i missed that memo also.

Rofl! :d

We didn't lose, we left because the pacifist leftist stoner college students of america almost started a civil war.

A lot of military historians, from the US and Vietnam will tell you that the Vietnamese were on the cusp of defeat. None other than the commander of the NVA Gen. Giap has stated so in several quotes.

Google is your friend cuz.

1. Snopes is far from infallible and commonly slanted.
2. The only firm NO in the Snopes article is that it was not mentioned by Cronkite. (meaningless)
3. Greg Lewis says "an article in a piece about Kerry " was incorrect. Could he be a little more specific?

Newsmax vs Snopes? I'll take Newsmax every time. Snopes is so slanted they should call it Slopes.

actually, the folks on this forum and snopes.com are my friends, bro. read the previous posts.

as for china being our friends, wikipedia is my friend:

Vietnam War

Main article: Vietnam War

The People's Republic of China's involvement in the Vietnam War began in 1949, when the communists took over the country. The Communist Party of China provided material and technical support to the Vietnamese communists. In the summer of 1962, Mao Zedong agreed to supply Hanoi with 90,000 rifles and guns free of charge. After the launch of "Rolling Thunder", China sent anti-aircraft units and engineering battalions to North Vietnam to repair the damage caused by American bombing, rebuild roads and railroads, and to perform other engineering work. This freed North Vietnamese army units for combat in the South. Between 1965 and 1970, over 320,000 Chinese soldiers fought the Americans along side the North Vietnamese Army. The peak came in 1967, when 170,000 troops served there. China lost 1,446 troops in the Vietnam War. The US lost 58,159.

ok, it was mentioned that the "memoirs" could not be found. have you found them?

Who said china was our friend?

Excerpt of interview of Bui Tin, Colonel NVA, General Staff:

"Q: Was the American antiwar movement important to Hanoi's victory?
A: It was essential to our strategy. Support of the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9 a.m. to follow the growth of the American antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda, and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and that she would struggle along with us."

"Q: What about the results?
A: Our losses were staggering and a complete surprise;. Giap later told me that Tet had been a military defeat, though we had gained the planned political advantages when Johnson agreed to negotiate and did not run for re-election. The second and third waves in May and September were, in retrospect, mistakes. Our forces in the South were nearly wiped out by all the fighting in 1968. It took us until 1971 to re-establish our presence, but we had to use North Vietnamese troops as local guerrillas. If the American forces had not begun to withdraw under Nixon in 1969, they could have punished us severely. We suffered badly in 1969 and 1970 as it was."

http://www.viet-myths.net/BuiTin.htm

no one has answered my thread specific and on-topic question: does anyone here REALLY believe that obama is the ACTUAL antichrist?

off to work i go. have fun and play nice!

Haven't been to Hanoi. But I'll still take Newsmax over Slopes! A little more for you.

From the NewsMax.com Staff
For the story behind the story...
Tuesday, Feb. 10, 2004 10:25 p.m. EST

Gen. Giap: Kerry's Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S.

The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping him achieve victory.

In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North.

That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going to blow up in Kerry's face."

"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these guys [Kerry's group], we would have lost," North told radio host Sean Hannity.

"The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert, encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who earned two purple hearts in Vietnam.

"John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands," North said.

Americans are ignorant...

Fixed it for ya.

Yes, I do.
And I hope jesus gets his butt kicked again.

I make one satirical reference to Obama and the crowd goes wild. The point of may statement was to illustrate that the Obammunists act like O has every solution to every problem, but can supply details on none. Fools swoon at his empty promises and claim he is all things to all people. All who show disbelief are branded as racists. Hence my comment, who is like the beast and who can make war with the beast.

So you guys are willing to believe as gospel the words of an ex-Vietcong general? He couldn't have an agenda with his comments, could he? Naw...he must be telling the truth. :p

I thought you guys didn't like the Vietcong...now you're quoting them. Politics does indeed make for strange bedfellows...

''according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North.''

consider the source [the same guy who sold arms to iran to fix an election
and keep our embassy's people captive longer then needed]
I thought trading with the enemy = treason
but I guess thats OK if you are a NEO-CON

and when did Oliver North become a '' historian '' ?

You believe Obama. And he's a proven liar. This guy is as of yet, unproven.

Thank you for providing an excellent example of why we lost the Vietnam war.
I know someone who was there. Who was praying for the US to stop the vicious, evil Viet cong. Someone who saw the horrors and atrocities that were being carried out by the cong.
He's told me about it and he has the scars to prove it. He was wounded while fighting the animals who were murdering everyone in his government, including their wifes and children. He told me of the systematic murder by the cong of everyone associated with the news media, the education system, it goes on and on. It wasn't as simple as a struggle between the west and the communists. It was the brutal extermination of a country.
Yet the liberals here seem to have a nice rosy picture painted in their fantasy world that all that stuff really didn't happen. Say hello to Jane Fonda for us. She's just as delusional about what was going on there.