Wife says no to motorcycle

[legion]

You are upset because your wife has put her foot down in absolute terms. The actual issue she has done this with is secondary.

I started dating my wife ten years ago. In ten years, there has only been one instance where either of us has told the other "no" in absolute terms.

It was me.

About two years ago, my wife wanted to volunteer for an after-school program held at a local church. The program ran from 4-8 Monday throught Friday. The church was in the bad part of town, and there had been several shooting at the convenience store directly across the street recently. My wife drives a bright yellow Sunfire.

I looked at the situation like this: She would always be getting into her car when it was dark, she was in the highest-crime part of the city, she is driving a car that sticks out, and she would be the only white person for blocks (another thing that would draw attention to her).

I told her no, I would not allow her to participate in the program because I feared for her safety and there really wasn't much (legal in Illinois) that could be done to improve her safety. She was upset, very upset. She understood and agreed with the points I was making, but that didn't make her any less mad. I knew full well that saying "no" could have disastrous effects on our relationship, but I also knew that I preferred that to getting a phone call from the police one night. I think what really upset her was the fact that I said no in unambiguous terms. Normally, I just give her the pros and cons and let her decide.

Which is probably exactly why you are so upset. You concede all of the reasons your wife is giving you, but you still resent the fact that she is making the decision for you. I don't think either of you are wrong in this situation, but that doesn't make it any easier.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Where's the shock here? You don't like your wife TRYING to tell you what to do, even if she does have a valid point. That is as much the problem as the motorcycle. Stop and think for a minute, do you really want a bike THAT BAD? Or is this a case of you being insulted that your wife is trying to boss you around?

I tend to balk heavily when my wife directly tells me no. It's an insult to the little bit of manhood I have left. Typically that becomes bigger than the question that she said no to in the first place.

Either way you need to have a sit-down with the wife. Tell her that you are insulted by her trying to order you around. If the bike is that big of a deal, tell her why. To soothe her safety concerns, offer to take safety classes, buy safety gear, etc. If she won't listen and still says no, buy the damn bike.

I went through this issue with my wife regarding flying. She was 100% against it. It doesn't help that she's deathly afraid of flying. After sitting down with her, and explaining how important it is to me, she agreed that she would support me even if she didn't like it. I still haven't come up with enough extra money to start taking lessons, but that will come.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Husbands and wives don't tell each other what to do. You can express your concerns and let them make their own decisions with that input....but that's it.

LOL, I want to live on that planet!

Seriously, my wife has veto power on a lot of my hairbrained schemes, and I'm probably better for it. I take the good with the bad... yes I don't have the freedom to run around like a madman, but I am very well cared for and live very healthy because of her.

Only time we really fought it out was when I wanted to take the Benz (our daily driver) to a DE event. She was adamantly against it, and kicked up a fair bit of dust. I argued that the wear and tear I'd inflict on purpose on the track wouldn't come near the damage she inflicts by accident on the roads. That didn't go over so well. It was finally cleared, but in the end I had other things I had to do that weekend.

Last year my wife went to Botswana for 6 weeks. That was pushing the envelope for me, but it's something she really wanted to do before we have kids. It made me really anxious, but I think NOT GOING would have been damaging, especially if she was held back because of my hang-ups.

[ramonesfreak]

Something you also might want to do, in addition to javadog's excellent advice is to man-up and spend some time on-line looking at video and photos of motorcycle crash aftermath.

I wont bother to post the links here. What you will see much of the time, will resemble hamberger meat or what the human body looks like after it has been hit by morter fire. Now that you are married, you have to consider that your wife may have to identify your body which may resemble ground-beef.

I continue to look at the grisley photos to remind me of what could, and probably will, happen - In doing so, I am continuously working on improving my skills and removing old bad habits so I dont end up like the photos

Remember, no matter how skilled you are, its the things not in your control that will likely get you.

Example, the only time I have almost been killed this year (only once so far, YAY), was in May. I was in the middle lane of the highway, doing about 70. From behind me came two bikers who I estimate were doing at least 160 mph. They thought it was amusing to swerve across lanes about 12 inches from my front end. The wind of their bikes nearly threw me off. If they had hit me, I assume the result would be that I would become specks of blood and little bits of bones scattered everywhere. This shook me up so bad that I couldnt get back on the bike for more than a month. I still think about these idiots and what could have happened all because of their reckless disregard for others. I typically have about 5 close-calls like this per riding season. No matter how careful I am

[Jeff Higgins]

I often see couples having arguments over what the wife will or will not "let" the husband do, but seldom the other way around. Why do women feel as though they have the authority over their husbands to grant or deny permission for these things? I can see it if there is going to be a significant financial burden or something, but I get the impression that is not the case with you and your wife.

My wife has never had this authority over me, simply because I refuse to grant it to her. We have been married for 23 years. Early in our marriage, we had some significant arguments over what she was going to "let" or "not let" me do. I made it very clear I did not marry my mother, and no longer needed "permission" for these sorts of things. Granted, yes, (like I said) financial decisions and the like are another matter; on those, you are in it together. Marriage is all about give and take, about compromise, in most areas. That is absolutely crucial to success. But with items with no real mutual impact, no one, not even her, had (or has) the authority to tell me "yes" or "no".

It's a matter of mutual respect. The women like to haul out the "you don't respect my opinion..." line, or variations thereof. It goes both ways. When they don't seem to take your opinions or desires seriously (placing theirs above yours) in decisions that really only affect you, they have exceeded their authority. In the case of something like a guy's hobbies or other interests - his "big boys' toys", poker night, or what have you, it's almost as if they feel they are being the "adult" in the equation, saving you from yourself and your "childish" whims. It's time to grow up, by golly, and put these addolesant urges behind you.

Problem is, guys just don't do that. What exactly is "growing up"? We all do our time in the barrel, with school, careers, marriage, family, house and home. That's pretty "grown up". Guys, however, are wired different than the ladies. At least generally speaking. We need other interests, some sort of escape, from all of this "adulthood". I don't think the ladies crave that as much, and see us as childish in some way because we do. So they step in to intervene, to be the "adult". They start assuming authority over us. Sometimes in small steps, so it's hardly noticable. Somethimes all at once. I've never seen it end well in either case.

Every long-term succesful marriage I have seen (including my own) simply does not work that way. The women give the men their "space" to pursue their interests, knowing they will still take care of the "adult" stuff along the way. And we do. With more cheer and enthusiasm than men who have been denied their pursuits by an overbearing wife that thinks it's her job, or her place, to grant or deny "permission".

I think that is why this upsets you so. She is establishing her position of authority, and you know it. It is worth the fight, now, to make it clear to her you will not grant her that authority. If she absolutely must have it, if she is absolutely unyielding, then I would be very, very worried. That does not bode well for your future, or the future of your marriage. I have seen it far too many times.

[berettafan]

my opinion on this is once kids are involved (and up to a certain age; say 18?) either spouse can veto a dangerous activity.

as a parent (not sure if you are?) i made a commitment to a person who had zero input into being brought into this family and who cannot provide for himself for some years. my wife putting her foot down over what she correctly perceives to be an unnecessary risk is ok.

my general attitude towards life is that i'm here to LIVE IT and if you wanna be my spouse then you're gonna live it with me or without me but i'm still gonna LIVE IT! but again, kids....well they need us and that trumps all.

such is my case.

[ramonesfreak]

the wife might just be unable to deal with the constant worry that comes with having one's spouse out on the road with a motorcycle.

Ive know some couples who have both been into bikes. Its totally different. If your partner is not into them - its purely a source of extreme worry and sadness for them. Imagine, everytime she is home sipping her coffee, she sees a news report, "An unidentified man on a motorcycle was killed this morning on Smith St etc......." Now she thinks it was you. She gets up Saturday morning and you and the bike are gone. She now sits with a worried mind until you safely arrive home. These are worries she will likely never get over for the entire period you have the bike

The best thing to do if your into bikes, is NOT marry a woman who dislikes them.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

My wife has never had this authority over me, simply because I refuse to grant it to her. We have been married for 23 years. Early in our marriage, we had some significant arguments over what she was going to "let" or "not let" me do. I made it very clear I did not marry my mother, and no longer needed "permission" for these sorts of things. Granted, yes, (like I said) financial decisions and the like are another matter; on those, you are in it together. Marriage is all about give and take, about compromise, in most areas. That is absolutely crucial to success. But with items with no real mutual impact, no one, not even her, had (or has) the authority to tell me "yes" or "no".

It's a matter of mutual respect.

Well said.

My wife and I had to work through a few of those issues early in our relationship, prior to marriage. I would not have married her had she continued to try and give me absolutes.

My only advice, cheap as it is, would be to get this on the table, now. Do not let this fester.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by berettafan

my opinion on this is once kids are involved (and up to a certain age; say 18?) either spouse can veto a dangerous activity.

as a parent (not sure if you are?) i made a commitment to a person who had zero input into being brought into this family and who cannot provide for himself for some years. my wife putting her foot down over what she correctly perceives to be an unnecessary risk is ok.

my general attitude towards life is that i'm here to LIVE IT and if you wanna be my spouse then you're gonna live it with me or without me but i'm still gonna LIVE IT! but again, kids....well they need us and that trumps all.

such is my case.

I must (respectfully) disagree. Darn near everything we do in this world is "dangerous", at least to some degree. Who gets to decide what is "unnecessary" vs. "necessary" risk in a relationship? That is far too much veto power to allow one person to hold over another, regardless of the relationship. What seems perfectly safe and sane to me may seem wildly irresponsible and dangerous to some one else. Where does a couple draw the line?

I like to hunt. My gawd, I could get lost in the woods, fall and hurt myself and never be found, get shot, and on and on. I like to fish. Geeze, I could drown, get sunk in a storm, or whatever. I like to hike and back pack. See hunting concerns. I like driving DE days. We all know what could happen there. I like riding motorcycles as well as bicycles. We all know the risks involved. I have buddies who like to scuba dive, hang glide, parachute, ski, snowboard, rock climb, and on and on. There are folks out there who believe any one of these activities is dangerous and irresponsible. Too much so for a man with family obligations to pursue.

I think the worst thing a man or woman can do to their spouse is to limit the other's activities to their own comfort level of risk. Or even worse, to pretend to, to use risk as an excuse to gain control. I honestly think the actual risk involved is usually a secondary concern, but one that is often trotted out in an attempt to further "validate" a "no" answer. We simply cannot just stop pursuing our interests because our spouse deems them to risky. The resentment that introduces into a relationship will degrade and undermine that relationship until it falls apart completely. How many divorced men exclaim "I can finally do what I want to do!"? It is a very, very big deal in many marriages, when a man starts living under the "authority" of a woman. It's the beginning of the end.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I must (respectfully) disagree. Darn near everything we do in this world is "dangerous", at least to some degree. Who gets to decide what is "unnecessary" vs. "necessary" risk in a relationship? That is far too much veto power to allow one person to hold over another, regardless of the relationship. What seems perfectly safe and sane to me may seem wildly irresponsible and dangerous to some one else. Where does a couple draw the line?

I like to hunt. My gawd, I could get lost in the woods, fall and hurt myself and never be found, get shot, and on and on. I like to fish. Geeze, I could drown, get sunk in a storm, or whatever. I like to hike and back pack. See hunting concerns. I like driving DE days. We all know what could happen there. I like riding motorcycles as well as bicycles. We all know the risks involved. I have buddies who like to scuba dive, hang glide, parachute, ski, snowboard, rock climb, and on and on. There are folks out there who believe any one of these activities is dangerous and irresponsible. Too much so for a man with family obligations to pursue.

I think the worst thing a man or woman can do to their spouse is to limit the other's activities to their own comfort level of risk. Or even worse, to pretend to, to use risk as an excuse to gain control. I honestly think the actual risk involved is usually a secondary concern, but one that is often trotted out in an attempt to further "validate" a "no" answer. We simply cannot just stop pursuing our interests because our spouse deems them to risky. The resentment that introduces into a relationship will degrade and undermine that relationship until it falls apart completely. How many divorced men exclaim "I can finally do what I want to do!"? It is a very, very big deal in many marriages, when a man starts living under the "authority" of a woman. It's the beginning of the end.

I like this perspective. much wisdom here i think

[scottmandue]

I am not married.

I sold off my motorcycles and bought a Porsche because it is almost as much fun as a motorcycle but a hundred times safer and at my age:
A) My reaction times are not what they used to be.
B) I don't heal as fast as I used to.

+1 That this is not about the motorcycle.

PS - Take your Boxster out for a drive and forget the bike.

[berettafan]

i feel ya Higgy but i guess some of my personal experiences have had a bearing on my thoughts on this.

i've had some near death experiences duckin' in bitter cold weather and each and every time i thought the same thing 'this wasn't worth never seeing my family again'. so, i manage risk a bit more carefully now with everything i do. food, hobbies, etc.

growing up w/o a dad sucks. i promise it does. so, my perspective is much more kid-related than might apply to others. sure i take risks and motorcycling is a risk that some folks are more comfortable with than others. but if the spouse sees it as too risky who is to say she is wrong?

[Rick Lee]

I've fallen down a few times with the wife on the back of the bike. It was almost silt-like sand in the Sonoran Desert. But she was fine with it. She complains a lot more about what the Porsche costs to run.

[widebody911]

You're gonna need a subscription...

[Overpaid Slacker]

You can respect her opinion but not be governed by it. When her "opinions" become rules backed up with the threat of retaliation, she's got the control issue. Your response to being emotionally coerced and having YOUR opinion and desires cast aside is human.

Get the f'ing bike and tell her YOUR opinion means something to you too.

JP

[the]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

PS - Take your Boxster out for a drive and forget the bike.

And don't forget your purse!

[RKC]

Lot's of issues on your end, your relationship, etc. But is the issue that black and white? Can you get a dirt bike instead? As I see it, cars are the problem, not motorcycles. You can break many things on a dirt bike, but it is hard to die unless you are on the street.

Or, how about take a Motorcycle Safety Foundation course - maybe both of you - to show her you're serious about safety and (if she joins you) let her experience riding. Maybe tell her you really want a bike and "how about we both take this course and then talk again?"

I rode dirt bikes as a kid and crotch rockets as a young adult, but when I moved from SoCal to Chicago, and had to deal with numbing cold and sweaty heat and realized what a pain the proper equipment was (leather jacket and helmet in 95 degree humidity, trying to work a clutch when it is 35 degrees and rainy......no thanks....) bought an open car or two and then the 911.....

Was at the Chicago Auto Show looking for a car for my wife a couple of years ago, and saw the BMW bikes with heated handgrips, etc. My wife encouraged me to sit on one (she's wonderful). I thought about it and then declined. Didn't even want to sit on it and start me thinking. To ride safely in this climate just isn't worth the 10 perfect days we get in May and/or September.....My money is better spent on cars and skis and boats and on and on....

[tcar]

The time to worry is when your wife, a doctor, who knows what the ER looks like,

begs you to buy a really fast motorcycle...

[legion]

Jeff, I respectfully disagree with your opinion.

Getting married means you give up some things in exchange for other things. One of the things you give up when getting married is total personal freedom. One of the things you gain is someone who is deeply vested in your happiness and your survival. While the wife and I maintain a high-level of independence, we do occasionally try to influence each other--and once since we have gotten married, put one's foot down to forbid the other from taking action that seriously jeopardizes survival.

I don't know everyone's child situation, but I think that having kids lowers that threshold for what is acceptable risk somewhat. And that makes sense because even more people are dependent on your survival.

[Rick Lee]

FWIW, I took the MSF course and it was woefully inadequate. It turned out ok for me because I try for at least 1000 miles per month and get a lot of practice. But that first ride in traffic after I got my license was terrifying and I can't say the MSF course helped me when I got into some tight spots. The key is lots and lots of practice.