Yet another scientific theory disproven

[m21sniper]

Apparently some birds are self aware. Whoops, there goes that theory eh?

Magpies are no bird-brains, mirror test shows

By Ben Hirschler Mon Aug 18, 8:03 PM ET

LONDON (Reuters) - Magpies can recognize themselves in a mirror, highlighting the mental skills of some birds and confounding the notion that self-awareness is the exclusive preserve of humans and a few higher mammals.
It had been thought only chimpanzees, dolphins and elephants shared the human ability to recognize their own bodies in a mirror.

But German scientists reported on Tuesday that magpies -- a species with a brain structure very different from mammals -- could also identify themselves.

"It shows that the line leading to humans is not as special as many thought," lead researcher Helmut Prior of the Institute of Psychology at Goethe University in Frankfurt told Reuters.

"After finding this kind of intelligence in apes, many people thought it had developed once in one evolutionary line with humans at the end. The bird studies show it has developed at least twice."

The discovery of self-awareness in magpies follows a 2002 study in which a crow stunned researchers with its tool-making skills, by twisting a wire into a hook to lift food from a tube.

Prior and his colleagues tested their magpies by marking the birds' bodies with a red or yellow dot that could only be seen in a mirror. They found the birds regularly scratched the mark on their body, proving they recognized the image in the mirror as themselves and not another animal.

To ensure they were actually seeing and reacting to the mark, and not just investigating what had been done to them, a "sham" black mark was used as a control that was invisible on the birds' dark feathers.

The result throws into question some basic ideas about how our brains work.

In particular, it had been thought that the neocortex brain area found in mammals was crucial to self-recognition. Yet birds, which last shared a common ancestor with mammals 300 million years ago, do not have a neocortex, suggesting that higher cognitive skills can develop in other ways.

Prior believes parrots, too, may yet show hidden mental skills -- but it is the crow family, which includes magpies and jays, that is the smartest.

"Crows have really huge brains compared to other birds," he said in a telephone interview.

The research was published in the Public Library of Science journal PLoS Biology and is available online at http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&d oi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0060202

(Editing by Mary Gabriel)

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If i had said to a scientist 18 months ago that magpies were self aware, he'd have probably scoffed at me. Our arrogance WRT what we think we know is pretty amusing sometimes.

[HardDrive]

That nasty science. By gum ya'll just can't trust it!

[widebody911]

The whole point of a theory is to try to disprove it - that's how knowledge expands.

[m21sniper]

Hahahaha that's a convenient out.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Hahahaha that's a convenient out.

It's the operative tenet of all science.

[dhoward]

They were really crows in Horrordome.com magpie suits.

[MichiganMat]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Hahahaha that's a convenient out.

LOL! Dude, wow.

[Nathans_Dad]

This illustrates a point I was thinking about a few days ago while driving...

Science has the luxury of never being wrong. Scientists make statements based on current evidence and if that evidence later proves to be invalid or superceded by other evidence, the scientists were not 'wrong' before, they just had inadequate evidence.

[Jim Richards]

Science has the luxury of never being stuck in the Dark Ages.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Science has the luxury of never being wrong. Scientists make statements based on current evidence and if that evidence later proves to be invalid or superceded by other evidence, the scientists were not 'wrong' before, they just had inadequate evidence.

Ah, but in the scientific realm, everyone is encouraged to challenge theories and update the body of knowledge as necessary. Theocrats simply excommunicate/execute those who come up with information that doesn't fit their world view.

[sjf911]

Science overturns preconceived ideas based on anthropocentric assumptions? This is what science does every day. Looks to me like there are a few other areas of human endeavor that deserve a "mirror test".

[unimog406]

Actually, as some of you may be aware, I am actually a magpie. We have been working for some time to subvert the minds of humans and lesser mammals to our own ends.

[K. Roman]

Sniper must have failed in science!

[sammyg2]

How much money did we spend to find out that a bird can look in a mirror?

[Moses]

Originally Posted by widebody911

Ah, but in the scientific realm, everyone is encouraged to challenge theories and update the body of knowledge as necessary. Theocrats simply excommunicate/execute those who come up with information that doesn't fit their world view.

'zactly! Funny thing... When current scientific understanding is turned upside down by new information no one is more excited that the scientists themselves.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

How much money did we spend to find out that a bird can look in a mirror?

Are you German?

Helmut Prior of the Institute of Psychology at Goethe University in Frankfurt

[Pazuzu]

Can you please remind the class again exactly which scientific "theory" was disproven (sic) with this research? I don't remember any scientific "theory" related to this, but since your thread title is so emphatic about it, I'm sure you must have recently studied it.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by widebody911

The whole point of a theory is to try to disprove it - that's how knowledge expands.

ie global warming.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

How much money did we spend to find out that a bird can look in a mirror?

Enough public funds to identify the cortex areas involved, which private medical facilities will then use to make money off patients.

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by unimog406

Actually, as some of you may be aware, I am actually a magpie. We have been working for some time to subvert the minds of humans and lesser mammals to our own ends.

Still jealous about our enucleated erythrocytes?