regardless, i think Hamilton was an idiot for doing what caused him to go off pisted in the first place... there was no way he could pass from the position he was in... and if there had been armco there, like before, he would have lucky if he would have walked home later that day, instead of being carried off on a stretcher...That alone, to me says he was wrong...

If it had been gravel, he would have off roaded the car, lost several car lengths , and it Ferrari would have had potential for a 1-2 win for Kimi and Massa.. that alone says to me, he was advantaged by the cut, and the 25 secs penalty is warranted...

IF he was so much faster, he would have easily taken Kimi after Eau Rouge, carrying the speed through Kemmel, and he wouldn't even have had to outbreak him at Malmedy, which is the really obvious location for such a move

I have no more interest in F1. It's rigged with the outcome that Max the lecherous wanker wants.

FACT:

Lewis let Kimi back in front of him immediately after returning to the racing surface--end of story.

When Lewis was forced to leave the track to avoid a shunt with Kimi he was right along side. When Lewis let Kimi regain the lead, Lewis' car was fully behind Kimi's. The rules state that a driver cannot gain a position. Lewis did not gain the position.

Hamilton clearly SMOKED Kimi at the end of the race. There is nothing fair about trying to take that win from Lewis Hamilton.

Mike

Stijn,
The only reason Hamilton went off was because he was driven off by Kimi. If there had been Armco there, Kimi would not have made a deliberate move to run Hamilton off the road because the ensuing crash would have taken himself out. However, knowing that there was an escape road, Kimi drove Hamilton off the track in order to maintain his position. And you know what, I dont hold any grudge against Kimi for doing it. It was hard racing in the final laps of an imprtant race

That being said, the fact remains that none of the actions by either driver should have resulted in a penalty. I was gutted when Kimi crashed because it would have made for a better race if he had stuck in there. And, with that being said, you are critical of Hamiltons passing manuver, yet Kimi lost control twice shortly thereafter. So....I am wondering if you are describing the correct driver as an "idiot"

+1000 Cornpanzer

What a bunch of bullcrap!!!




I have been a Kimi fan since he moved to Mika's spot at McLaren but I don't think this is at all fair to Hamilton. He drove a great race and took advantage of the situation.

I think the penalty is absurd...as are many of the regulations. Reality there was a ton of RACING going on, give and take from both drivers and one ended up in the wall, the other ended up winning.

For the stewards to take as drastic an action as they have would have required that Lewis take a full and complete a benefit of his cutting chicane and no reasonable attempt to give back the position. I think it was clear that Lewis did give some space back, a bit ambiguous perhaps to some, but good enough considering it was racing for the lead in the last 2 laps.

I do not blame Ferrari for this (so far), but clearly FIA has a big hate on for McLaren and will take every opportunity to penalize them so it hurts. As for Massa's penalty at the last Grand Prix...they did not take any position away from him or penalize him on track, mainly as it was largely not his fault, although one could argue he has eyes and ought to have been watching too.

Max (where's my lube) differs from Adolf Hitler only in ideology and opportunity....

Dennis

I watched the last 2 laps. More passing in those two laps than in the whole season. The penalty is a joke. I guess Lewis should of just hit Kimi in the side and take both cars out.
You'd never see a call like this in NASCAR.
Okay flame away.

Maybe he shouldn't have tried, but he did and he was beside Kimi.

5.9.2 When two cars are side to side, both cars have to leave room for
the other car and not steer into him, both have the same rights

So penalize Kimi for not leaving room?

Hamilton let Kimi pass and Hamilton put his car 100% directly behind Kimi's car before repassing, so how can anyone say Hamilton did not let Kimi repass him?

Its now being reported that Charlie Whiting told McLaren that they had met the requirements of the sporting regs by allowing Kimi to get back in front.

Cornpanzer,

Where did you hear this?

Thanks,
JR

I'm a ferrari fan and love to see them win, but that was a bs call by the stewards. Hamilton could have moved in front of the ferrari and the pass would have been complete, but clearly hamilton gave the position back. It is not stated that you must remain behind the opponent for a set amount of time, only that you must give back the position. It's too bad that a bad call has altered the results from a truely great race.

Clean Pass that stuck:

<object width="400" height="302"> <param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /> <param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=1459174&amp;server=vimeo.com &amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portr ait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" /> <embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=1459174&amp;server=vimeo.com &amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portr ait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="302"></embed></object><br /><a href="http://vimeo.com/1459174?pg=embed&amp;sec=1459174">Felipe's masterpiece</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user567207?pg=embed&amp;sec=1459174">Axis of Oversteer.com ***</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com?pg=embed&amp;sec=1459174">Vimeo</a>.

Overly optimistic that that did not stick:

http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/2008/09/lewis-hamilton-wins-but-it-wins-ugly.html


You kidding me right???????

Watch both videos all the way through and tell me these were the same if you do I cannot even discuss this with you because like you accuse me of being blind being a Ferrari fan, your blind with your hatred for Ferrari.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080907180059.shtml
http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6361&Ite mid=219

if we think back.... last year a driver (heidfeld iirc) had cut a corner, gave the position back then passed on the next corner and was given a very similar infraction after the race because of it......i'll see if i can dig up the details on it.

poor kimi.......

Complete and utter B.S.

Just another example of the FIA manufacturing a championship for Ferrari. If F1 returns to the U.S., I will NOT be attending because of a clearly identifiable pattern of favoritism over several years benefiting the red cars.

Either run the races and let people COMPETE - or don't. You don't have two sets of rules (one for your darling popular team and another for everyone else). Hamilton won that race fairly, gave the position back to Kimi after his forced off, then made a BRILLIANT pass to take the lead for the final time - clearly a better and more sportsmanlike pass than Raikkonen's childish one to force Hamilton off at the end and "ensure" that the pass stuck.

I'm done with F1 for a while. This is just insufferable malarkey.

Jim, first of all, neither of these videos show the incident that I was referring to at Hockenheim where you complained about Hamilton doing exactly what Kimi did today. In that case, it was Hamilton's "dirty driving" when he shoved Massa off the track on exit, but not when Kimi does it? Personally, neither incident bothered me, but you need to be consistant. If it was dirty when Hamilton did it, then it must have been dirty when Kimi did the exact same thing.

Secondly, where do you come up with the idea that I hate Ferrari? I root for Hamilton as well as Massa. I picked Kimi to win the 2007 championship and I was right. I love good racing and good driving but i dont allow a passionate allegance to a specific team color my judgement.

Finally, going back to the brilliant (and it truly was brilliant) pass that Massa put on Hamilton in that clip you posted. Notice that Massa did the exact same thing that Hamilton did today. He late braked on the outside of the corner. In fact, he was even more desperate as he had much more front tire lock up than Hamilton did today. The only difference between Massa's "brilliant" pass on Hamilton and Hamiltons "overly optomistic" pass was that Hamilton allowed Massa room on the track - he didnt force Massa off the track like Kimi did today! Other than that it was the exact same passing manuver, so once again you are inconistant.

What total BS. :mad::mad::mad:

Once again, if the positions were reversed, no penalty would have been assessed against Ferrari and McLaren would have been told to go pound sand. The FIA would have pended any penalty until after the race and just fined the driver. :rolleyes:

Hamilton very clearly gave Raikonnen the lead, despite Raikonnen using a dangerous and reckless move to force Hamilton from the track.

What we have is the FIA engineering another championship for Ferrari (again) and Raikonnen (again) by making all penalty assessments against the better team (McLaren) far more severe than penalties against Ferrari.