any knife sharpening experts out there?

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

its obvious from yer statement you are a CITY SLICKER! that has no concept of hunting. you are accustomed to driving to a store and buying yer food. you havent a clue about SURVIVAL SKILLS NOR HUNTING SKILLS!

after 3 days in the wilds of the southwest you would DIE from lack of these skills and i would then take all of your gear and put a rock under yer head and then say "via con dios city slicker"! you probably wear a hatchet on your belt and carry a dull RAMBO wannabe knife with a hollow handle and a compass on top!

[Overpaid Slacker]

OK, I haven't read all posts, and I don't claim to be an expert... however, my $0.02:

I collect cutlery, including several very expensive japanese special-purpose knives and a good deal of classic/antique carbon steel european knives. I sharpen all of them myself, and get them sharper than anybody whom I've paid to do so.

First, the nature of the steel (carbon, stainless, "high carbon" stainless) etc, in large part determines how "easily" you'll get an edge, and how long the blade will hold the edge. Carbon takes a fearsome edge, with relative ease, and will hold it (with proper care -- no cutting on glass or marble countertops, e.g.). Stainless takes a bit more work and, to my mind, does not take as ferocious an edge. stainless will, however, hold its edge a bit longer than carbon ... for a few reasons.

Second, the sharpening angle is knife and purpose dependent -- a single bevel usuba, for example has, essentially, a 0 degree back, and I use about a 15 degree front. That's ridiculously sharp -- and it's a dedicated vegetable knife, so it won't be bouncing off of bones or other hard things. A deba (used for cutting up whole chicken), I'll sharpen to 24-30 total degrees, which is still screaming sharp, but the extra "thickness" of the edge helps it hold up to rougher duty.

My gyuto (a 300mm monster, translated: "cow sword") I'll put a 40-45 degree angle on, because it's a large, heavy blade that will have to handle whatever I throw at it. A friend's field knife I just sharpened I put about 50 deg onto b/c (i) this knife is for cutting rope and stuff around a campsite (ii) it will hold its edge longer and (iii) it's big thick honkin piece of stainless.

As for sharpening, two ways -- Lansky System (diamond). Look it up, it's excellent ... and it allows you to change the angles on either side of the blade. It's definitely an advanced intermediate approach, and it's tough to screw up.

However, the knife gurus I've spoken to and read use waterstones (different techniques for different knives -- western vs. japanese). This is how you get an absolutely incredible, custom edge on a knife. I recommend King -- there are a few available on ebay, through a classic/japanese cutlery seller named Ralph. Check out his stuff. Amazing, really.

If you get a good waterstone (with at least a 6000 grit side) you don't need a ceramic rod. And you should never, never use the steel rod included with your set. Ever. Throw it out.

Instead of needing a rod, you can just run your knife over the waterstone once or twice on each side to straighten the edge back out.

I strongly recommend "An Edge in the Kitchen" for anybody interested in knives and sharpening. He also includes a very good section on technique.

This is a link to photos of about half the collection: Cutlery (with pic goodness) (edit -- hey, that post is from 2 years ago today!)

JP

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by Overpaid Slacker

As for sharpening, two ways -- Lansky System (diamond). Look it up, it's excellent ... and it allows you to change the angles on either side of the blade. It's definitely an advanced intermediate approach, and it's tough to screw up.

However, the knife gurus I've spoken to and read use waterstones (different techniques for different knives -- western vs. japanese).

The Lansky is foolproof, but takes quite a bit of time to get set up, then you have to move it along the length of the knife...basically, extends a nice quick sharpening session into a 30 minute ordeal.

The whetstones are best, but are bulky, and are the quickest way to dull your knives to an unrecognizable state (well, the dishwaster might be quicker...)

I find that for kitchen knives, I want something very quick, very easy, and is already on my counter. I've used one of these for years (for my kitchen knives only), and it's so fast and easy, you can use it every time you pull the knife out to use it.

Spyderco Sharpmaker:

[Overpaid Slacker]

Nothing wrong with Spyderco at all... just prefer the Lansky. Actually, in the other thread, john kramer referenced the Edge Pro ... which is a great system as well. Not cheap, and a bit "easier" than the Lansky. Bulky, perhaps, but you can put your weight into it if you want to.

For carbon steel, the Lansky takes very little time, for stainless it takes a while, b/c you can't really put your "weight" behind it.

But, I enjoy keeping the edges keen, and my "bulky" stone takes up 1"x2.5"x10". I store it in a water-filled tupperware container under the counter and pull it out when needed. It took me a little while to get used to it, but it's just feel after a while... and appreciating the nature of the steel you're dealing with and the intended purpose of the knife. I'm still no expert (curved or "skinning" knives take a LOT of practice) but I enjoy it.

JP

[Milu]

I'll add my vote to the Edgepro for sharpening and the Spyderco sharpmaker for honing. Even if they are a little OTT when their only client is a Laguiole
I'd agree with the sentiments about not using power tools on fine blades and give my opinion that most people (including chefs and butchers with the fancy moves) don't know how to use a steel.
Out of interest does anyone have a technique for sharpening (not honing) a convex ground edge without using a belt sander with a loose belt?